PzHeinZ Wrote:I have not seen the movie yet, but it must have been quite nice having inspired you getting acquainted with history of Greece! What kind of liberties did the hollywood people take?
Where did "300" go wrong? First, this is not a knock on the movie as it made no pretense to be historically accurate because it was adapted from a graphic novel and it was a jolly good adventure flick. But as Ricky B mentioned, Xerxes army seemed to full of freaks and Xerxes himself is portrayed as a giant faggot. The only historical record of the war is that of Herodotus and surprise, surprise he never mentions the Persian army having rhinos or guys with big lobster hands. I can understand why Iranians took offense at this movie. It would be like an Iranian making a movie about Valley Forge and portraying George Washington as a transvestite.
The episode where Leonidas pushes Xerxes' heralds into the pit actually happened but a couple of years sooner. In fact the Spartans knew that the murder of the heralds was an affront to the Gods and thought the threat of war with Persia was a form of retribution from the gods. The Spartans went so far as to send two representatives to the court of Xerxes to offer their lives as a way of appeasing the great king. Xerxes just laughed and sent them on their way.
The guy who betrayed the greeks at Thermopylae was a local resident named Ephialtes, not a deformed gnome. Leonidas tells him that he can not fight with the greeks because he can't maintain his place in the line. And indeed this is a good point the Spartan king makes. The integrity of the phalanx was critical in hoplite warfare. If the phalanx becomes dis-ordered the whole formation is at risk, and yet as often as not in the movie we see the Spartans fighting one on one with the enemy or throwing their spears (a definite no no back then).
As an example, there is one Spartan named Aristodamus who was absent from the final day at Thermopylae and so was scorned as a coward on his return to Sparta. In the climatic battle of Platea, which saw the defeat of the Persian army and their expulsion from Greece, this Spartan fought with unmatched bravery, like a Viking berserker, in front of the phalanx until he was overwhelmed and killed. After the battle the victorious Greeks acknowledged those who had showed the greatest courage, but Aristodamus was not among them. He fought for himself and not as part of the whole and this was heretical to the Spartans. (In the movie Aristodamus is the one that gives the speech at the end of the movie as the Greeks get ready to fight the battle of Platea).
I could go on about the Spartans in the movie fighting without body armour or the weird uniforms of Xerxes' Immortals, but you get the idea. It is a shame that film makers see the need to distort history to make their films more interesting, especially when the truth is often more fascinating than any script from a screen writers imagination.
I highly recommend "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield. It's historical fiction, but stays very close to the facts.
D-Day_Dodger Wrote:It is a shame that film makers see the need to distort history to make their films more interesting, especially when the truth is often more fascinating than any script from a screen writers imagination.
Very well put, nice to know there are similar thinking people to me in the world! :bow: :smoke:
Sometimes the truth is so strange that even fiction will not accept it, and this is especially true with war stories. Here is one example from Farley Mowat's book "The Regiment". This book is a non-fiction account of the author's experiences with a Candian regiment in the Italian campaign. In one instance he relates how his unit was strafed by a German fighter and from his vantage point he could see seven or eight men hiding behind a single tree. Each man was standing behind the man in front and as the fighter circled the man who was up next to the tree, oblivious of the others behind him, would move slowly around the tree, keeping it between him and the fighter. Of course, as he moved the men behind him tried to conform to his movements creating the impression of a human snake.
If a director of a war movie filmed something like that, the audience would say that's too far fetched to be believed. It's more the kind of thing that you might see in "Catch 22", but not in "Saving Private Ryan". I think to make a good war movie the producer/director have to find a nice middle ground between cliche and outrageous. They should try and stretch the viewer's imagination without crossing the line into the bizarre, which was what "300" did. Movie making is equal parts story telling and illusion. If either is lacking the other has to compensate or the movie suffers.
When I speak of illusion I'm basically referring to the filmmaker's ability to create (or recreate)the environment in which the story is acted out. In this respect movies like "Platoon" and "Saving Private Ryan" excell. Historical accuracy is the bottom line for a war movie and in the past achieving that was expensive and not always possible. Today, a simple trip to Wikipedia will give anyone the basic facts about almost any historical event you care to mention and today's computer graphics can make even the most epic of battles seem possible to translate to film. "Flags of Our Fathers" and the episode of "Band of Brothers" that has the paratroopers dropping on D-Day are just two examples of what is possible for a guy(s) with a mouse and a keyboard to accomplish.
As for the storytelling side of things, a good story well acted can make up for having a low budget, see "Go Tell the Spartans" with Burt Lancaster (he's great). On the other hand, despite all the time and money spent on making "Gods and Generals" historically accurate it bombed because the story failed to capture or keep the audience's attention (And unfortunately, because of the poor results at the box office for "Gods and Generals", the third film in the trilogy is in limbo until the producer can find someone with deep pockets to finance it).
Speaking of war movies, does anyone know of any good true to life war flicks that are coming out this year? The only one I know about is "Lord of the Rings" director Peter Jackson is planning to do a remake of "The Dam Busters", but I don't know what it's release date is.
Now you got me interested, I have to get this "300" myself.
One hint more, at least then someone should get it:
"I achieved most of my success with U-181."
PzHeinZ Wrote:Now you got me interested, I have to get this "300" myself.
One hint more, at least then someone should get it:
"I achieved most of my success with U-181."
Wolfgang Luth? I did cheat and googled it, i have never heard of him, although my WW2 knowledge is not that great! :eek1:
D-Day_Dodger Wrote:Speaking of war movies, does anyone know of any good true to life war flicks that are coming out this year? The only one I know about is "Lord of the Rings" director Peter Jackson is planning to do a remake of "The Dam Busters", but I don't know what it's release date is.
I have my hopes set on Dam Busters, i have no idea when the release date is?
Let us hope it does not have B17's or 29's dive bombing the dams and the water destroying the whole of the Ruhr (or flooding the Fuhrer bunker) and the whole lot set in 1940! :hissy: :rolleyes:
I got a book about Lüth called "Sukellusveneässä" (engl. U-boat Ace) as a christmas present from my wife. I have to say that is the first time I heard of him either. He was an outstanding soldier, the "Michael Wittmann" of the German navy so to speak. I recommend the book warmly. :)
That Damnbuster movie would be interesting too..... Yesterday there was a documentary/reality programme about that operation at the Viasat History channel, I guess it is a two or three episode series actually. There was interesting background information about the calcualtions and preparations of how to get that damn dam busting bomb to fall at the right place etc. The reality part was that they started to train present RAF pilots for this mission using a dummy Lancaster made from wood in a hangar. The Lancaster was actually a simulator with a large screen in front of it, the crew is to "fly" all the way from England to Möhne dam in Germany. Interesting to see if they make it flying in 100 feet and getting a lot of FlaK on them.
The good news about that movie is that there are two flying Lancasters left. Let´s hope the Hollywood people can use one of them!
A new one for you.....:
"I was born in Germany. Later I wrote a significant letter to the president of the United States. Later I became to a conclusion that this letter was the biggest mistake of my life."