Black Sea Discussions

[GAZNZ]

That's really weird a
Interesting
Thanks for the heads up

I really appreciate the tank/AT data Spike.
Ill be using that as my reference now :)

Biggest issue I had was AT missiles launching and veering off Target.
I thought it was jamming but it appears to be a bug, hence why in most of my games my missiles went veering off randomly and with my Armour taken out by Javs i was being pummeled by US armored forces.
As its a big bad bug and fixed in the new patch the game should be more playable.

As I established/discussed on the main CM forums, Javs are a normal armament of US forces, they have an abundance of them. So its fair and reasonable for the US to have lots of em.
After discussions I've come to the following thoughts.

So it comes down to trying new tactics as the Russians.
Javs are not going away lol
You need to play a slightly different game against the US.
Some prices are dropping so take more cheaper units if you can.
use more troops and aggressively scout.
Take more AT units that are not tanks or vehicles.
ie AT Launchers as shown in Spikes list and try using them more.
I will be after the new patch as I stopped using them as they were not working and veering off prior.
Use artillery to hit javs or suspect jav sites and keep them clear from areas.
Snipers may help but you need to get them in close - <400 yards for effectiveness.
Fast movement and smoke are your friend, use BMPs to fast move up with units. getting in close is beneficial to the Russians.
yes it can be hard but hopefully will work out better
With Russian tanks fixed , Armour wise and there ballistics/rounds fixed in the patch tanks are more usable but don't rush them out in open and expect them to just sit and take it like an Abrams.
Treat them like gold.
They die faster then in CMBN and CMRT lol

Air power is an option but in 3 games I've used air power all my planes were shot down by 2-3 stingers and I've never hit a target - only edge of map.
It seems to easy to take them out and id recommend using artillery instead.
2300? i think it is a lot of points to be taken out by 140 points in stingers - why bother taking planes?
Some people are saying anti air doesn't work.
Well I disagree from experience. Irrespective 2000+ for a couple of big bombs randomly somewhere if they don't get shot down is it worth it?
Its your call

I recommend trying different things anyway if the games not working the way you want after the patch :)
And take turns with opponents playing US or Russian so you both play evenly and its fair for ladder games results if that's your thing.
or try Russian / Urkaine on occasion for variation
I've heard its a lot of fun playing the last two and its what this was originally all about.
Cheers

[PoorOldSpike]

T-90AM vs Oplot test
We can't read too much into a single test but it shows the two tanks are roughly equal in a shootout, this single T-90 (bott left) was the last tank left standing but it was a close run thing. (the non-burning T-90 is knocked out)
I lined up two groups of 5 tanks facing each other at 700 metres and left them to start shooting. There was lots of smoke popping and the gunfight ran to about 6 turns. Both tanks have APS but of course it played no part because incoming high-velocity solid AP shots don't trigger it-



So it seems Ukrainian vs Russian forces is the way to go to get a balanced game, and incidentally Ukraine doesn't have Javelins..:)

[GAZNZ]

T-90AM vs Oplot test
We can't read too much into a single test but it shows the two tanks are roughly equal in a shootout, this single T-90 (bott left) was the last tank left standing but it was a close run thing. (the non-burning T-90 is knocked out)
I lined up two groups of 5 tanks facing each other at 700 metres and left them to start shooting. There was lots of smoke popping and the gunfight ran to about 6 turns. Both tanks have APS but of course it played no part because incoming high-velocity solid AP shots don't trigger it-



So it seems Ukrainian vs Russian forces is the way to go to get a balanced game, and incidentally Ukraine doesn't have Javelins..:)

The new patch will change your outcomes.
Try them in a week or so time.
Its not too far away.

Its not about balance so much Spike.
I found javs as UBER weapons but they can be beaten
One needs to adopt different tactics.
New patch should fix most issues that were making game quite unplayable.

If Ukraine got Javs supplied which is possible game might get updated as such. lol

Cheers for all your testing work along with others.

[PoorOldSpike]

DEFAULT MAPS
To help players select a map, here are the 16 stock Meeting maps that have got at least 3 objective areas, non-city/town, and with no rivers.
I found that formula gives good games for the following reasons-
1- Meetings are more mobile and therefore more exciting than Assaults/Attacks/Probes.
2- With three or more obj areas,games tend to be more fluid because you don't know which ones your oppo is going for, whereas maps with just one or two objs tend to stalemate too easily.
3- Cities and towns are fine for Kiev or Donetsk streetfighting, but the maps look all the same.
4- Rivers can stalemate games very easily as both players sit waiting for their oppo to get on the bridges and fords so they can blast him.

(PS- newcomers should remember that on maps with "hollow" objective areas, you must have units sitting on the yellow borders at endgame to score obj points for them)

Map 100



Map 093



Map 282



Map 283



Map 101

[PoorOldSpike]

Map 305




Map 315




Map 313




Map 287




Map 301

[PoorOldSpike]

Map 089




Map 077R




Map 012R




Map 036R




Map 061R




Map 003

[jomni]

Has the hollow objective areas been raised to Battlefront?

[raz_atoth]

I'm quite sure the hollow objective areas aren't a bug, but intended behaviour. The maps can be opened in the editor and the areas can be painted as full objectives, if desired.

[PoorOldSpike]

Has the hollow objective areas been raised to Battlefront?

Not by me. In the past I discussed things in the BF forum but some members argued with me just for arguments sake even though I've topped CM ladders at 4 different clubs over the years, so I got bored and stopped posting there..:)
As for hollow objective areas, they're intentional like Raz said, so just remember to have units on the yellow border at endgame to score objective points.
I don't know if BF members (or any other club members) know that, as it's not mentioned in the game manual, and I only discovered it by accident during tests, but Blitz members certainly know it if they're following this thread..;)

[A Canadian Cat]

It is intentional. I don't know the motivation exactly because it has never been directly communicated. My impression was that give the amount of comments about having to clear every last nook and cranny of the objectives the QB map author decided to change things up a bit. I am not sure why it was confusing but hey I assumed the blank centre did not count when I saw it. That could have turned out to be an silly assumption if different decisions were made - so I can't judge .

Now we know for sure and @PoorOldSpike lived up to his name and got burned - poor guy

That last comment was meant to be humour and in no way was it intended as an insult to anyone (just in case no one else finds it funny).