This game kicks my butt

[Weasel]

Whether I play against the AI or a human my death, especially my infantry, is very quick in coming. I split my squads, try fire and movement and still end with the same result, carnage.

I don't know what I am doing wrong or is this game just brutal to the attacker? I have read other people having the same problem on BF, so what do you guys think? Do your attacks succeed or do they meet a dismal fate like mine?

[eltorrente]

Yeah, it can be brutal.

From what I've seen, people get their infantry slaughtered by attacking with them a few turns too early. If you haven't been able to put a lot of fire down and suppress the enemy, you're attack will likely fail. It's usually better to take your time and make sure you're in full control before you launch your attack. All it takes is a couple enemy soldiers to stop an attack sometimes.

I like to just advance slow and methodical. Use one platoon spread out to find the enemy, then use mortars, MG's, and another platoon to hold them down - then use another platoon to manuever and attack them. If you can't manuever much, just advance one or two units a turn, maybe 10-20 meters at a time, and keep increasing pressure until they break. If you just charge head long you're asking for it.

[raz_atoth]

Unsupported infantry will rarely manage to defeat the enemy. Split your squads and use the teams to draw enemy fire. Once you have a clear idea where the enemy units are,call in the arty assets. If you have some on-map mortars nearby even better,it can work wonders. Keep your tanks behind the infantry and let them unleash upon your opponent's revealed units. Wait till the arty stops from firing then boldly push your infantry to clean those pesky (but hopefully at this point cowering/shaken) survivors.
That's the theory at least.

[Weasel]

It is too bad that real life infantry and tank tactics fail in this game, but I guess when you try to force 0s and 1s to represent the world that is what happens. Being that I was a section commander in the infantry for 6 years, and a driver/gunner in tanks for a further 6 I feel I have a grasp on these tactics, at least more so then someone who has never done either.

I have been using standard 1 up/2 back or 2 up/1 back tactics, then fire and movement but the enemy never misses in this game. I have also noticed that the leader seems to great clobbered rather quickly.

Thanks for the replies.

[enigma6584]

It is too bad that real life infantry and tank tactics fail in this game, but I guess when you try to force 0s and 1s to represent the world that is what happens. Being that I was a section commander in the infantry for 6 years, and a driver/gunner in tanks for a further 6 I feel I have a grasp on these tactics, at least more so then someone who has never done either.

I have been using standard 1 up/2 back or 2 up/1 back tactics, then fire and movement but the enemy never misses in this game. I have also noticed that the leader seems to great clobbered rather quickly.

Thanks for the replies.

Do you not think you are rushing to judgement? We know nothing of the scenario or scenarios you have played with these results. We know nothing of the terrain you are attacking on. We know nothing of the force structure you are up against etc. etc. yet you insist this game doesn't do real life tactics justice because you lost. I beg to differ.

Perhaps the scenarios or terrain you were playing on were just piss poor for attacking in? Perhaps the scenario was a badly made scenario? I myself have run into scenarios so bad it was impossible to win versus AI and especially human. I've also played scenarios against the AI and especially humans which have been nailbiters to the end.

There are so many good AARs out there from real life veterans showing how good this game is...how real life tactics can be used. If you like, I'll even list links to them here. IMHO, they are the best source for learning how to use the engine to play a proper tactical battle. There are so many factors in this game which make it a decent simulation of tactical combat. It is not an easy game, it takes time to learn it. You stated you were in the real infantry. You don't need lectures about tactics then but you probably are having trouble understanding the terrain in the game engine, for example what is really giving cover and concealment? How does LOS work with terrain cover etc., how the C2 works in this game and how it is so important to cohesion of units in the game.

Winning in this simulaiton is like cooking. So many ingredients are needed in the right amount to produce the positive end product. If one ingredient is forgotten or mishandled, the taste of the meal could end up being bitter.

[Weasel]

I have been running training scenarios I created and learning how the game works, this game, unlike RL, never misses, all fire is effective (causing casualties); there is never a burst that misses but warns you.

Anyway, I have created two training scenarios now, going back to my infantry days starting with platoon vs single squad, then platoon versus sqd+MG (the way you tackle these two objects is totally different). Next will be company vs platoon etc. One thing I have learned is keeping your squads as a formation is not the way to go, breaking them up is.

[eltorrente]

Heh - well obviously you know all about tactics since you've done it for real, and not just read about it like most of us have. I agree that the "issue" must be simply a matter of the way you are utilizing and interpreting the game engine to do what you want.

I served on a submarine, so that's as far removed from infantry manuevering as you can get. Once I figured out the CMx2 engine, plus having played CMx1 since the beginning, I was able to implement the tactcs that I'd always read about. It seems realistic to me, but I've never been on a battle field or seen this stuff up-close.

Here's a series of videos - that I think EVERYONE should watch - from the Armchair General website, that shows real world tactics implemented in-game:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/combat-mi...deo-series

These were made by Lt. Col. (ret) Jeffrey Paulding, a retired infantry commander. He's a big fan of the game and old-school wargamer, and these 4 excellent videos show him kicking ass in the game.

[Weasel]

I have watched those vids too, they are great. I have still found splitting every squad into its' parts is mandatory.

The training scenarios I have created have been a great help; also, I am not saying I am an authority on tactics, after all I was just a section commander in the infantry so my scope was at the platoon level. But you are quite correct, it is having the CM2 engine work the way you want it too that is the trick.

Perhaps someone can explain to me the following: Movement: move causes no fatigue, of course, HUNT causes fatigue, why is this? Hunt is just cautious slow movement, it should not cause fatigue, only use up valuable time. Anyone know why CM2 causes huge fatigue for HUNT command?


Btw - his second video I don't fully agree with, he basically did 'recon by death' with his first company, he could have split his squads up and reconnoitered the approach much better (of course, this is hindsight and my first CM2 games have been recce by death too).

[eltorrente]

Perhaps someone can explain to me the following: Movement: move causes no fatigue, of course, HUNT causes fatigue, why is this? Hunt is just cautious slow movement, it should not cause fatigue, only use up valuable time. Anyone know why CM2 causes huge fatigue for HUNT command?

The way I think of it, it's like the troops are walking around tensed up and ready for contact at any second. They're probably crouching slightly and keeping low, etc. Going by experiences playing paintball, it was tiring crouch-walking. That's how I see it, anyway - they're hyper-ready and see and react better, so I don't mind the trade-off.

Btw - his second video I don't fully agree with, he basically did 'recon by death' with his first company, he could have split his squads up and reconnoitered the approach much better (of course, this is hindsight and my first CM2 games have been recce by death too).

Yeah, I like to keep my scout teams alive, and split squads and try to be careful. I usually always designate the 1st squad of my platoon to be the forward squad. For this reason, I often make them one level better quality, and give them at least +1 leadership - so they can operate away from the commander if necessary. I like to keep them spread out for the inevitable moratar strike(s), too.

[S.A.M]

Those are real good tips el torrente, appreciate your comments. I can honestly second your tactics as state of an art since I have not managed to get a win against you yet. I think it is nice of you to share your tactics with everyone here. shows good character, always trying to help others is for sure a seldom but it just shows that there is good will.
I am very pleased reading this.

Good on you Eltorrente