(09-09-2012, 06:53 AM)weapon42 Wrote: I like playing more than anything, and yes I like winning more than losing,who doesnt?anyone would be lying if they said they like losing.
You may have missed where I said, "I play ladder games because it's fun to be competitive, but the journey is more fun than the win or the loss at the end.
Of course it's more fun to win than to lose, otherwise there would be no competition. :)
I would rather lose a close victory with both sides having realistic forces in a back-and-forth battle, than a total victory because I picked nothing but Panthers. Seriously.
Quote:Obviosly your proud of your 100 wins, you just told us all about your 100 wins.
Well, you asked me how many victories I had.
Should I have not answered?
Quote:have no idea how you play, but you claim to know about how I play and know nothing about me.
"Do-anything-for-a-victory style of play", you have the wrong guy.
I'm basing information about how you play, which came from you.
You're the one talking proudly about picking nothing but Panthers.
Quote:" And your an idiot for making that statement.Not a much of a tactics guy."?Could'nt be further from the truth.
You said: "Das Tiger just recently delt me a total loss and I took 9 Panthers.He played better than I did, thats it."
So, I'm assuming you are, in fact, a "tactics guy"?
This where you don't get it.Since 1999, Ive probably played well over
a thousand games, pbem,tcip.Ive taken all Panthers twice, once against weasel , once against das tiger.Ive played every kind of game, all infantry, all armor, whatever the opponent wants.You make inaccurate and stupid assumptions about my style of play.Who cares if I took 9,5, or 18 panthers.And by the way it would not have been unrealistic to go up against 5 panthers in Normandy.Anyway this all started because weasel whinned about losing, like he had nothing to do with it.The point is the game was winnable on his end.But he blames rarity and German armor.
09-11-2012, 01:36 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-11-2012, 03:04 AM by Weasel.)
.Anyway this all started because weasel whinned about losing, like he had nothing to do with it.The point is the game was winnable on his end.But he blames rarity and German armor.
I was not whining, I was stating a fact that panthers are too common when they were not common at all (ZERO RARITY>>>REALLY???). For every 8 PzIVs you should see a Panther, for every 10 Stugs you should see a Panther. If you go for all German tank types combined it would probably boil down to 15-1. I am not complaining about your win, nor did I not dispute your win; it was my second CMBN game and a learning curve (big), tanks are far more deadly to infantry than in CM1, artillery is far harder to control, and Panthers are far more deadly. Why did I not buy all fireflys?, because I always try to buy realistically and 5 panthers holding a town with no other support is not realistic nor is a battalion of FireFlys realistic, but as stated, there were no ground rules.
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
09-11-2012, 06:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-11-2012, 06:16 PM by S.A.M.)
If I am allowed to say something then let me say I know excactly how you must feel.
By the way, I never taken what you wrote as whining.
In fact I appreciated the post because it is very informative, especially for new people like me. It does help me imense in understanding what I might face going blindly with someone into a game not insisting on a few rules that allow for a even chance.
I since reading your post negotiated 2 games with someone who wanted a lot of stuff on random but purchasing was allowed and fog of war was low and rarity was turned off. not even the map was enabled to be previewed.
I basically turned him away and insisted on certain settings. I have not played many scenarios but as for quick battle maps I would recommend to anyone to establish a clear understanding of what is go or no go. As it turned out, that person was also a beginner and he just did not know or understand the potential indifference in the balance of those games.
It was unintentionally in that instance but thanks to your post I have been a bit more carfull what I get myself into here or there.
From what I can see especially for QB Maps it helps:
rarity at least standard
fow (skill) to be a minimum of warrior preferably elite or even Iron
playing rather larger maps so to have room to manover
and if I may say agreeing not to bombard the attackers setup zone in a pre strike artillery bombardment during the first turn.
I think if everyone is in general a little more careful in the beginning, the more enjoyable the game for everyone involved. If I set a game up I will tell my oponent everything about the game and I expect the same from others to inform me also when they set up. Is only fair enough I think.
So far I have had the pleaseure of only meeting excellent people here in this club.
Like I said that was an excellent post in my opinion and I think it is good to know from that how easy inbalance could occur if the groundrules are not established correctly.
09-12-2012, 04:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-12-2012, 04:18 AM by Weasel.)
Hey guys, I didn't intend for this post to be a Weapon42 bash, he won fair and square no doubts about it. My post is intended to reflect on the poor game design when it comes to common tanks being rare, and rare tanks being common so that every German player has panthers or tigers as their MBT. Sure, you can buy all Fireflys, but that is just as bad.
I must admit the more I play CM2 and CM1 I am finding that I love the graphics of CM2, but prefer the game play and settings of CM1.
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
(09-12-2012, 04:17 AM)Weasel Wrote: I must admit the more I play CM2 and CM1 I am finding that I love the graphics of CM2, but prefer the game play and settings of CM1.
That's point - I have same feelings.
09-12-2012, 03:20 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-12-2012, 03:59 PM by Barre.)
.Anyway this all started because weasel whinned about losing, like he had nothing to do with it.The point is the game was winnable on his end.But he blames rarity and German armor.
I was not whining, I was stating a fact that panthers are too common when they were not common at all (ZERO RARITY>>>REALLY???). For every 8 PzIVs you should see a Panther, for every 10 Stugs you should see a Panther. If you go for all German tank types combined it would probably boil down to 15-1. I am not complaining about your win, nor did I not dispute your win; it was my second CMBN game and a learning curve (big), tanks are far more deadly to infantry than in CM1, artillery is far harder to control, and Panthers are far more deadly. Why did I not buy all fireflys?, because I always try to buy realistically and 5 panthers holding a town with no other support is not realistic nor is a battalion of FireFlys realistic, but as stated, there were no ground rules.
Weasel, sorry but Panthers where very common in Normandy, in fact it was the main battle tank in the British sector, in the US sector however where almost no Panthers at all as the majority of the panzerdivisions where all concentrated near Caen, Montgomeries trap !
(09-09-2012, 07:49 AM)weapon42 Wrote:
(09-09-2012, 07:21 AM)eltorrente Wrote:
(09-09-2012, 06:53 AM)weapon42 Wrote: I like playing more than anything, and yes I like winning more than losing,who doesnt?anyone would be lying if they said they like losing.
You may have missed where I said, "I play ladder games because it's fun to be competitive, but the journey is more fun than the win or the loss at the end.
Of course it's more fun to win than to lose, otherwise there would be no competition. :)
I would rather lose a close victory with both sides having realistic forces in a back-and-forth battle, than a total victory because I picked nothing but Panthers. Seriously.
Quote:Obviosly your proud of your 100 wins, you just told us all about your 100 wins.
Well, you asked me how many victories I had.
Should I have not answered?
Quote:have no idea how you play, but you claim to know about how I play and know nothing about me.
"Do-anything-for-a-victory style of play", you have the wrong guy.
I'm basing information about how you play, which came from you.
You're the one talking proudly about picking nothing but Panthers.
Quote:" And your an idiot for making that statement.Not a much of a tactics guy."?Could'nt be further from the truth.
You said: "Das Tiger just recently delt me a total loss and I took 9 Panthers.He played better than I did, thats it."
So, I'm assuming you are, in fact, a "tactics guy"?
This where you don't get it.Since 1999, Ive probably played well over
a thousand games, pbem,tcip.Ive taken all Panthers twice, once against weasel , once against das tiger.Ive played every kind of game, all infantry, all armor, whatever the opponent wants.You make inaccurate and stupid assumptions about my style of play.Who cares if I took 9,5, or 18 panthers.And by the way it would not have been unrealistic to go up against 5 panthers in Normandy.Anyway this all started because weasel whinned about losing, like he had nothing to do with it.The point is the game was winnable on his end.But he blames rarity and German armor.
And Weapon, i don't mean to bash you either but the CMFI game we are playing.
First you ask that it be a ladder game or not, i said yes only to see that you put rarity off and took a platoon! of Tigers knowing fully well that the US has nothing in there arsenal to stop it. I could have asked to put rarity on but that seems abit odd to me, in all the years i am playing PBEM games i never ever seen 'rarity off' as default so people wont specifically ask to put it on.
Luckily for me the map is pretty big with alot of hiding spots and i do not fear a challenge but i do not have high hopes for a victory here.
That being said , i will stand my ground and try to give you hell anyways
No scouting ahead of main force with crews fom destroyed guns or vehicles
Would you like to add anything?
Is this for the ladder?
From Barre:
Nope those rules sound great and make sense, i have nothing to add to them :)
So what ground rule did I break?
If you asked for no tigers, I would have complied.
If you said can we put rarity on strict?, I would have said sure.
In weasel's game we agreed to "no rules".I always put in a no plane rule, but just forgot.Sure enough he bought planes.I didnt complain because I couldnt.We agreed to no rules.
The issue is eachplayer needs to have their own groundrules they are comfortable with.And if the player does not want to play by those parameters then don't play them.
I have 2 games going with dastiger, mirror with no tiger rule.
1 game with razatoth, meeting 2 vehicle/tank max rule.
another with a armor car and halftrack only rule.
Anyway in all fairness Barre.You are more than welcome to attack me on same map with same rules for the ladder.What do you say?I could use a few more games.
There were a total of 432 panthers in Normandy and yes mostly against the UK/Cdn armies with a total production of Panthers around 5000 (not 1000 like I said before). With that said, I read several documents which stated that about half of all tanks encountered were Panthers, so even that means a 50/50 split when buying. BTW - here is an interesting quote on panthers and the bocage:
The commander of the Panzer Lehr Division, Gen. Fritz Bayerlein, reported the weaknesses of the Panther tank in the fighting in Normandy:
While the PzKpfw IV could still be used to advantage, the PzKpfw V [Panther] proved ill adapted to the terrain. The Sherman because of its maneuverability and height was good ... [the Panther was] poorly suited for hedgerow terrain because of its width. Long gun barrel and width of tank reduce maneuverability in village and forest fighting. It is very front-heavy and therefore quickly wears out the front final drives, made of low-grade steel. High silhouette. Very sensitive power-train requiring well-trained drivers. Weak side armor; tank top vulnerable to fighter-bombers. Fuel lines of porous material that allow gasoline fumes to escape into the tank interior causing a grave fire hazard. Absence of vision slits makes defense against close attack impossible
Here is a list of the standard types of tanks found from 1943 (42 for Tiger) onwards with their total build number. Of the 5000 Panthers built, only 432 went to Normandy, a ratio of 8%. Of all Sherman tanks built only 32% were 76mm and of all tanks and TD, only 21% mounted the 76mm or higher.
The one thing to remember is the vast majority of Sherman tanks of all builds went to the Western front, whereas the German tanks were divided among three fronts.
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
(09-13-2012, 02:48 AM)weapon42 Wrote: The issue is eachplayer needs to have their own groundrules they are comfortable with.And if the player does not want to play by those parameters then don't play them.
Not to long ago, the CS ladder started up thread that displays different member's REO's.
Since ground rule issues appear to be increasing, it sounds like it would save alot of miscommunication and ill-feelings if you guys started one of your own.
Here is the link to the CS Personal REO's thread, to give you some ideas.
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