release problem

[jonnymacbrown]

So to confirm, the divisions that remained fixed were assigned prior to the scheduled release to a fixed parent formation, or at least one with a release set for the formation. The parent formation and other units assigned to it released as scheduled, but these divisions did not release along with the others - which completely contradicts the test I ran last night. So if the above is correct, please send me the turn before the release happened, and the turn of release, along with the password, and I will pass along to HPS after verifying, if that works for you jonny.

Thanks much
Rick

All the units of 7th Army begin the game fixed. On the 11th they begin to release. In my game, the divisions had been released and were free to move and did so. They were then fixed again by the program, after they had been reassigned. They then never unfixed.
I have all the turns but you'd need my opponent's password to open them.
jonny

[Ricky B]

So since you haven't said it yet, did the parent formation have a release order? I have asked that before and you implied yes, so just plain answer it please - I have no clue which part of my summary you are saying no to. I never asked whether they were unfixed originally as that doesn't matter for what you are reporting.

You say they fixed, then never unfixed - I already got that way back in post one - no bug there, based on the very limited facts you are providing.

Was there a release for the parent formation, AFTER the divisions fixed? Simple question - yes or no please.

Again, what part of my summary is wrong? Or if you like, exactly what is the bug and why do you feel it is one, in DETAIL please?

[jonnymacbrown]

Okay thx jonny. Now did the new parent formation release and these units didn't? If there was no parent release then there is no bug -bit a warning to not change assignments for fixed units without a good reason incl how releases will be handled.

Yes, the parent units all released.

I said so here! The parent units all released. How many times shall I say it? The parent units, Corps and Army released: but the units that were transferred to new parent organizations did not.

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"Again, what part of my summary is wrong? Or if you like, exactly what is the bug and why do you feel it is one, in DETAIL please?"

The Bug is that 1e DLM, 9e DIM and 6oe DI are still fixed on the evening of the 13th even though their parent organizations; 7th Army and 1er Corps have released long ago. I gave exact detains in a prior post; here again:

"Ok here is the situation: At start, French 7th Army has:

1er Corps with 25e DIM, 4e DI Colonial, 7eDINA
XVIe Corps with 9e DIM
7th Army Reserve with 4e DI, 21e DI, 60e DI, 1e DLM

On the first corps attachment phase, 0000 hours MAY 11; I reorganized so:
1er Corps now has 25e DIM, 4e DI Colonial, 7e DINA, 1e DLM, 9e DLM
XVI Corps now has 21e DI
7th Army Reserve now has 4e DI
Army Nord 60e DI

In other words the units I moved to 1er Corps did not release, ie. 1e DLM and 9e DIM. Again, as we now approach the 14th I still have fixed 1e DLM, 9e DIM both of which I moved to 1er Corps and 60e DI which I moved to Army du Nord is also fixed. At 50% release values they all should have released long ago. I'm going to put everybody back to where they started and hope they release at dawn on the 14th. "

[Volcano Man]

OK, Everyone stop; I think you are both talking past each other. Here is the one post that should settle the issue (as mentioned, I already tested it and confirmed it). Firstly, it is not a bug. Here is the step by step procedure on how this whole mess happened:

1) A corps organization is assigned a fix (or begins the scenario as fixed already)

2) The user assigns the subunits of that fixed corps to another corps (ie. moves the divisions to another corps)

3) The original corps that the subunits came from has a release and when it comes up the fixed sub units (as per #2), which are now assigned to a different corps, do not get released.

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There is only one way to make this issue "better" for scenario designers. In the release dialog, it would be nice if there was a check box (that is "on" by default), something like "Apply to attached units". When that is selected, then releases apply to the formation and those that are currently attached to it (ie. this is only applicable if the fix/release is set at corps level). With the check box not ticked, then it means that fixes and releases apply only to the corps original unmodified structure according to the OOB (ie. the original divisions of a corps could be fixed and released even if they are not currently under that corps anymore).

Anyway, barring a change like that to the editor, the solution here is the following:

A) As a user playing a scenario, do not change corps attachments for divisions that are fixed -- if you do, then you better reference the releases dialog first.

B) As a user playing a scenario, do not cheat by moving divisions between corps that will get released earlier.

C) As a scenario designer, avoid creating releases at the corps level at all costs.

Case closed really. No bug per se, just follow A, B and C above. There really isn't much else that can be said about it.

[jonnymacbrown]

Everyone stop. Freeze! I think you are both talking past each other. Here is the one post that should settle the issue (as mentioned, I already tested it and confirmed it). Firstly, it is not a bug. Here is the step by step procedure on how this whole mess happened:

1) A corps organization is assigned a fix (or begins the scenario as fixed already)

2) The user assigns the subunits of that fixed corps to another corps (ie. moves the divisions to another corps)

3) The original corps that the subunits came from has a release and when it comes up, the sub units (as per #2) are now assigned to a different corps and as such, do not get released.

----------------

There is only one way to make this issue "better" for scenario designers. In the release dialog, it would be nice if there was a check box (that is "on" by default), something like "Apply to attached units". When that is selected, then releases apply to the formation and those that are currently attached to it (ie. this is only applicable if the fix/release is set at corps level). With the check box not ticked, then it means that fixes and releases apply only to the corps original unmodified structure according to the OOB (ie. the original divisions of a corps could be fixed and released even if they are not currently under that corps anymore).

Anyway, barring a change like that to the editor, the solution here is the following:

A) As a user playing a scenario, do not change corps attachments for divisions that are fixed -- if you do, then you better reference the releases dialog first.

B) As a user playing a scenario, do not cheat by moving divisions between corps that will get released earlier.

C) As a scenario designer, avoid creating releases at the corps level at all costs.

Case closed really. No bug per se, just follow A, B and C above.

Ok so am I up shit's creek? :whis:

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"A) As a user playing a scenario, do not change corps attachments for divisions that are fixed -- if you do, then you better reference the releases dialog first."

When I changed organization they had been released. I had no idea they would fix again.

"B) As a user playing a scenario, do not cheat by moving divisions between corps that will get released earlier."

I wasn't trying to cheat. The organizations had been released and I reassigned them. I had no idea they would fix again. Later on, they fixed again, and remain so.

[Volcano Man]

GAH, I know you weren't trying to cheat. Just take a step back. I am saying to everyone else not to use it as a cheat mechanism -- it would be easy enough to see it happen when the whole horde of units comes down upon you, and it would only ruin a good campaign if someone does it.

Yes, you might be screwed, I don't know what to say. Unless you can look through the release dialog and fight another corps that is releasing soon. If there is one there, then assigned these now perpetually fixed divisions from the original corps to it. If there isn't one, then you are going to have to rely on the good graces of your opponent to release those units by sacrificing and armored car or something like that.

[jonnymacbrown]

GAH, I know you weren't trying to cheat. Just take a step back. I am saying to everyone else not to use it as a cheat mechanism -- it would be easy enough to see it happen when the whole horde of units comes down upon you, and it would only ruin a good campaign if someone does it.

Yes, you might be screwed, I don't know what to say. Unless you can look through the release dialog and fight another corps that is releasing soon. If there is one there, then assigned these now perpetually fixed divisions from the original corps to it. If there isn't one, then you are going to have to rely on the good graces of your opponent to release those units by sacrificing and armored car or something like that.

Ok thanks, this was a big help. I'll give it a try. Thanks again to both you and Ricky.

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GAH, I know you weren't trying to cheat. Just take a step back. I am saying to everyone else not to use it as a cheat mechanism -- it would be easy enough to see it happen when the whole horde of units comes down upon you, and it would only ruin a good campaign if someone does it.

Yes, you might be screwed, I don't know what to say. Unless you can look through the release dialog and fight another corps that is releasing soon. If there is one there, then assigned these now perpetually fixed divisions from the original corps to it. If there isn't one, then you are going to have to rely on the good graces of your opponent to release those units by sacrificing and armored car or something like that.

Ok so at 1200 on May 14 French X Corps releases @ 100%. Does that mean all units attached to X Corps release? So, if I attach my wayward divisions to X Corps that might work? jonny:whis:

[Volcano Man]

Ok so at 1200 on May 14 French X Corps releases @ 100%. Does that mean all units attached to X Corps release? So, if I attach my wayward divisions to X Corps that might work? jonny:whis:

Correct, that should do it.

[jonnymacbrown]

Ok so at 1200 on May 14 French X Corps releases @ 100%. Does that mean all units attached to X Corps release? So, if I attach my wayward divisions to X Corps that might work? jonny:whis:

Correct, that should do it.

Hallelujah

[Ricky B]

Thanks VM.

By the way everyone needs to realize that if you assign a new parent to a division the new parent is the only parent -that is what I was trying to say all along. The oob parent no longer matters for anything when you made the change.