Overlord

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I don't think a five hour battle could cover this scenario. It is huge and five hours would maybe cover the airborne drop. I do agree with you tho Ed.......encouraging players to crack the file is something the Blitz should not really be supporting......again just my 2 pennies worth here.

Earl,

Thanks for your comments.
I believe that 50 turns would be perfect. You do not have to mess with dawn or dusk. And, units that have lost cohesion would be about ready to be replaced by those following?
To me, it is a matter of setting the victory conditions properly.

And, for the record I could even see it at 80 turns. Falco stated that a victory was achieved/decided within 30 turns? Does that mean that 1120 turns are a waste of time? :chin:

And, remember, the airborne drops occurred mostly hours before the beach landings? In the dark where visibility would have to be changed?



HSL

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What does losses or strategies have to do in either a tactical game of 50 turns or 1200?

I was specifically referring to the suggestion of breaking a large scenario down into a series of scenarios.
<snip> unless you're playing a von Earlmann style campaign or a Linked Campaign. Linked Campaigns aren't useful for PBEM, unfortunately.

On the other hand, playing a larger scenario (possibly covering the entire day with 155 -160 turns of daylight typically in France in June - add 6-10 turns if you use the night-day switch at the start of the scenario - no need to manually edit the file) that covers the majority of the battlefield and actions of the day offers the players involved flexibility in how they play and the consequences of those decisions throughout the scenario.

There are a number of scenarios that cover portions of D-Day by themselves. From the para landings and fighting to the mess at Omaha and so on. Alone, they are great scenarios that depict a particular action.

A well designed, larger scenario allows you to play all of those scenarios at once, in one game and see how they interact with each other.

Yes, 1200 turns is out of the scope of the game design, for now.

Jason Petho

Agree on all the above points.



HSL

[Von Earlmann]

Having worked with the scenario a bit in the editor my main observation is that most of the objective hexs are either right on or near the beachs and the Allies can probably just secure the beaches and a few other hexs around the air drops and achieve a major victory very early........wether or not the Axis can mount a counter strike effective enough to take them back and turn the victory count the other way is the question. Problem is most of them are low value and retaking them would probably cost more in vps than they are worth.

I do want to say that there was a large amount of effort put into writing this and the designer should be given at least an A for effort.

VE[/align]

[Crossroads]

Rod considered doing some rework with old scenarios a while ago. I guess the consensus on comments was to allocate that time to creating new scenarios, instead.

I would definitively agree with your comments re A for effort. If a scenario like this could be "salvaged" with a decent amount of work, well I guess the result would be one awesome (!!!) team game.

I am aware there is another Overlord scenario available though, have not played it, and do not if these overlap so whether it would indeed make sense to rehash this... Campaign would sound like a lot of fun, though.

I would agree about the length of the scenario, though. 1200 turns, over 8 days of 6 minute turns, sounds a bit like an overkill, to say...

I am sure there were lulls in the fighting, so with the risk of starting a discussion on the subject of these 120 (or whatever) turns represent the fighting over the 8 days (or whatever) of Overlord, I would say that approach would suit this scenario just right.

I mean, the objective would be to create a team game for the full campaign, with objective on fun?

I would propably need to fetch me helmet now.

[K K Rossokolski]

I think that to achieve an acceptable degree of realism, it would be be necessary to break it into days and nights. The paratroop landings, for example. I understand also that the Germans did a lot of movement at night because of the overwhelming Allied air power.
Personally, I believe a scenario this long is pointless . At 3 tpw, it would only take 7.6923 years ....7y 8m 10d.
Or thereabouts.

[Crossroads]

Can't much argue with that :)

A scenario this long is obviously out of scope re what the engine is designed to achieve. Additionally, the longer the scenario is, the more it streches our imagination to have all units involved in a non-stop combat.

The good old Panzerblitz / Panzer Leader situations (scenarios) are mostly from 10 to 12 turns, with a couple of 15 turn monsters thrown in for a good measure. So, a bit short from 1200 turns.

The night / day movement would be a great thing to have available as something that can be used in scenarios, with a capability of allowing it run for a longer period of time than it currently does.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Having worked with the scenario a bit in the editor my main observation is that most of the objective hexs are either right on or near the beachs and the Allies can probably just secure the beaches and a few other hexs around the air drops and achieve a major victory very early........wether or not the Axis can mount a counter strike effective enough to take them back and turn the victory count the other way is the question. Problem is most of them are low value and retaking them would probably cost more in vps than they are worth.

I do want to say that there was a large amount of effort put into writing this and the designer should be given at least an A for effort.

VE

With victory hexes being near the beaches it is all the more reason to make it a lesser time frame. :chin:
I am sure the assault of the beaches is expertly modeled and should be the point of the scenario. :thumbs_up:
I am not faulting the designer for the work done. Though, I will question the decision to make it such a long scenario.
If someone wants to work on it to make it a single day battle and a teamer that would be as impressive as the work already done? :smoke:

Breaking it up into multiple scenarios to "evolve" night and day, or as a campaign would be really cool too!



HSL

[von Manstein]

I think that on beach shouldn't be any VP. Main targets for allied forces was Caen, Bayeux, Carentan and Ouistreham. For those targets should be higher VP value.

[Von Earlmann]

I think that on beach shouldn't be any VP. Main targets for allied forces was Caen, Bayeux, Carentan and Ouistreham. For those targets should be higher VP value.

They are higher but not enough to make a difference....I agree the beaches should not be too high on objectives..however I suspect the designer wanted to encourage the Germans to try and attack the beaches......just guessing here tho.

VE

[Huib Versloot]

The limit of CS when it comes to large scenarios is when withdrawals and replacements have to be entered. It's impossible. A 1200 turn scn is impossible and ridiculous. I don't know what timespan the maker is trying to simulate but in my experience the limit is approximately 10 days. Usually withdrawals and replacements come into view around that time as well, often earlier. 10 days and nights can be simulated by about 75-180 turns depending on the amount of action there was historically. This will give you the time to do about the same as was done historically.
It is hard enough to play a 100 turn scn from beginning to end.

Modern Wars will include the 1973 battle of the Golan Heights as a single scenario of approximately 150 turns for 6 days and nights. I wonder how many will manage to play it from beginning to end.

[Von Earlmann]

The limit of CS when it comes to large scenarios is when withdrawals and replacements have to be entered. It's impossible. A 1200 turn scn is impossible and ridiculous. I don't know what timespan the maker is trying to simulate

It is supposed to be 24 or 25 days...long time for sure :-)

I guess he was figuring aroun 50 turns/day.