Having a number of these games under my belt now I would like to propose some tweaks in the interests of game balance.
1. In most advances and the 2 assaults I have played the attacker wins- most of the time this is because the number of turns available to apply the larger force is huge - usually in excess of 50 in an advance and 60 in assault, even with just 2500 pts of defenders.
How difficult would it be to have a selectable number of turns in computer-selected forces games?
2. The AI invariably chooses masses of AAA and very little air - there are exceptions I have noticed to the latter, e.g. US advancing in late 44.
Is it possible to have a "flak density button" that will modify the AI's AAA pick?
And similarly a "air button" that will give you somewhere near what the number of flights is set at?
3. I also wonder if it is possible to have an abstraction for air intercept fighters? i.e. choose how many flights of fighters/top cover available as a reflection of local air superiority and get a message of air intercept results that would not be unlike the counter-battery routine?
4. In assaults and advances the AI probably spends too many points on artillery. Again would it be possible to set a % to be spent by the AI on arty?
5. And finally defensive works and bunkers/pill boxes. Again would it be possible to have a % slider for points to be spent on a) mines/wire/DT and b) bunkers/pillboxes etc?
Many Thanks for your thoughts.
Hi!
Are you talking about WinSP or SP:WaW ?
If it's WinSP these suggestions might have more impact posting them in their forum:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139
Following facts are from my experience with WinSP:
Regarding your 1. point:
You can already adjust the turns.
At the very beginning where you buy your troops you can view the map and there you can freely adjust the number of turns.
As for the AI-picks I mostly agree, but I don't see much chance that it will change that drastically.
What you can do right now is to set the Buying of the enemy to human, this will allow you to buy the enemy forces you expect. Granted that the surprise of what is coming is gone through this, but deploying and fighting is still done by AI and might offer surprises.
(02-07-2015, 02:57 AM)KAreil Wrote: [ -> ]Hi!
Are you talking about WinSP or SP:WaW ?
If it's WinSP these suggestions might have more impact posting them in their forum:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139
Following facts are from my experience with WinSP:
Regarding your 1. point:
You can already adjust the turns.
At the very beginning where you buy your troops you can view the map and there you can freely adjust the number of turns.
As for the AI-picks I mostly agree, but I don't see much chance that it will change that drastically.
What you can do right now is to set the Buying of the enemy to human, this will allow you to buy the enemy forces you expect. Granted that the surprise of what is coming is gone through this, but deploying and fighting is still done by AI and might offer surprises.
Thanks, WinSP, I will post there. I am talking about PBEM games with AI selected forces only.
I wouldn't bother going to shrapnel, you will be shouted down and told to piss off. In regards to your questions, all those things would require game code re-writing, not going to happen. I agree, I have played several AI picked games lately and we have found the turns are excessive (40+ for an ME), one side gets lots of heavy arty and air while the other gets a few batteries of light and AAA, and the side with the light arty gets heavier tanks and the heavy arty guy gets lighter ones. All in all I have come to the conclusion that AI games are not worth the effort. Walrus and myself tried 4 in a row and all followed this pattern (SPMBT). If the forces could be edited it would help, so both players could talk and agree on calibre of guns allowed etc but you have to stay within that unit class.
(02-07-2015, 12:59 PM)Weasel Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't bother going to shrapnel, you will be shouted down and told to piss off. In regards to your questions, all those things would require game code re-writing, not going to happen. I agree, I have played several AI picked games lately and we have found the turns are excessive (40+ for an ME), one side gets lots of heavy arty and air while the other gets a few batteries of light and AAA, and the side with the light arty gets heavier tanks and the heavy arty guy gets lighter ones. All in all I have come to the conclusion that AI games are not worth the effort. Walrus and myself tried 4 in a row and all followed this pattern (SPMBT). If the forces could be edited it would help, so both players could talk and agree on calibre of guns allowed etc but you have to stay within that unit class.
Thanks Weasel,
I am now playing my nth game with AI and think that on the whole the AI picks can be very interesting especially if playing mirrors or parallels with multiple choice for myself and opponent. For example, Normandy 1944 we just used pick one from 6 set ups which were Germans vs US/Can/UK and AI tank lite and tank heavy, giving the Germans 6 defensive scenarios to actually look at the terrain and forces. Same in SPMBT for example, Israel defending vs Egypt/Syria tank lite & tank heavy advances\ and Korea, a Chinese advance vs US Army and USMC tank lite and tank heavy.
I mostly have no complaints and it certainly levels the field in terms of there being no "pet forces" fielded.
For meeting engagements it works fine mostly - even with 40+ moves!
I might ask politely at Shrapnel and see what response I get and post it here.
Might I ask what the benefit of AI-picked forces is?
The only thing I can think of now is that it prevents "gamey" cherry-picked forces.
(02-07-2015, 08:14 PM)KAreil Wrote: [ -> ]Might I ask what the benefit of AI-picked forces is?
The only thing I can think of now is that it prevents "gamey" cherry-picked forces.
Exactly. You will come across players who may say "I only play SPMBT as Israelis" or "I only play SPWW2 as Brits in June-Aug 44" - these players know every strength and weakness of the micro-era, (apart from playing with the advantage of super-Israeli morale and in the latter case brittle German morale). I have also noted players with their "Pet Force" cruising for unsuspecting opponents to whack.
Also, AI picked forces gives the a better feel of being a commander of an assigned force with a particular mission. At the moment I am only playing AI games and, to be fair to both sides, either playing serial games - same setup and then swap sides - or mirror games, same (but bot identical) set up playing as both sides at the same time.
It is not often the case that one can win with both sides in a serial or mirror set up!
And, apart from the weaknesses in the AI pick noted, is great fun.
(02-07-2015, 09:34 PM)Air Master Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. You will come across players who may say "I only play SPMBT as Israelis" or "I only play SPWW2 as Brits in June-Aug 44" - these players know every strength and weakness of the micro-era, (apart from playing with the advantage of super-Israeli morale and in the latter case brittle German morale). I have also noted players with their "Pet Force" cruising for unsuspecting opponents to whack.
Also, AI picked forces gives the a better feel of being a commander of an assigned force with a particular mission. At the moment I am only playing AI games and, to be fair to both sides, either playing serial games - same setup and then swap sides - or mirror games, same (but bot identical) set up playing as both sides at the same time.
It is not often the case that one can win with both sides in a serial or mirror set up!
And, apart from the weaknesses in the AI pick noted, is great fun.
Thanks a lot!
I will definitly keep this in mind when looking for my next game.
(02-07-2015, 11:49 PM)KAreil Wrote: [ -> ] (02-07-2015, 09:34 PM)Air Master Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. You will come across players who may say "I only play SPMBT as Israelis" or "I only play SPWW2 as Brits in June-Aug 44" - these players know every strength and weakness of the micro-era, (apart from playing with the advantage of super-Israeli morale and in the latter case brittle German morale). I have also noted players with their "Pet Force" cruising for unsuspecting opponents to whack.
Also, AI picked forces gives the a better feel of being a commander of an assigned force with a particular mission. At the moment I am only playing AI games and, to be fair to both sides, either playing serial games - same setup and then swap sides - or mirror games, same (but bot identical) set up playing as both sides at the same time.
It is not often the case that one can win with both sides in a serial or mirror set up!
And, apart from the weaknesses in the AI pick noted, is great fun.
Thanks a lot!
I will definitly keep this in mind when looking for my next game.
I have space for another game if you are up for trying AI forces. Either SPMBT or SPWW2 - I really don't mind. The only rule is that we play 2 games, either mirror or swap sides - we agree separately on vis and air settings. Optional rule I like to offer is that if a player loses both games he gets a rematch with a 10% balancing pts bonus. Let me know! AM.
FYI for the pair of games I offer, and also ask my opponents to offer, a choice of 5 or 6 scenarios to choose from e.g. for SPMBT one from each decade: 1. US intervention in Hungary 1956, 2. Arab-Israeli 1967 3. Indo-Pakistani 1974 4. What if Allied vs WP 198X 5. Russians in Chechnya 199X 6. Gulf War 2 2003. Or any other conflict from any decade
historical or what if.
AI picks add some nice randomness to the game and can balance out players, but it can also really screw one player. Our first AI game Walrus had four or six batteries of 155 plus 120mm mortars and air and I had a single 81mm on map mortar, a 120mm on map mortar and a single 105 arty piece, no air. I had superior tanks but they were centurions and moved so slowly that he just clobbered them with heavies, total arty fest. After that we had to start disclosing to each other at game start how much arty we had to balance it out, but then the player who has to turn arty off loses on battle points. All in all just a mess.
Using buying guides works better, IMO.
This is our old buying guide, the % don't work anymore and the rest needs to be tweaked, something we are just starting to work on, but it lays a good foundation.