(02-11-2015, 06:54 AM)Weasel Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2015, 12:00 AM)Gordons HQ Wrote: [ -> ]This is an Interesting thread but it sounds like a bit of nightmare trying to enforce all these house rules.
Maybe it is time Gary Grigsby took note and got on with making version 2 of his game. I read somewhere in an interview with him he might just do that and perhaps that would solve some of these problems.
I feel it is such a pity this great game suffers by some of the things you point out.
Cheers,
Gordon
It is really quite easy once you play once or twice. Uncas has picked up on it very quickly and up to now only played AI. He just printed it out and kept it beside him.
A new SP, that would be interesting but not sure what they could do to improve it except maybe make it 3D instead of 2D, that would be COOL! Same game play and all, but the units look like in the old Panzer General.
I agree it is in fact very easy once one gets used to it. And most, if not all of it, enhances the realism feel and sometimes restrictive nature of real world force structures. The problem comes when the protocol set being played with is not agreed in one or two minor details! Perhaps the time has come for us to cobble one together that also includes Z fire and make it "Standard" if both sides agree.
I honestly hate Z fire in all of its' forms, I know it has a purpose, but I just hate it.
I hate it too, but it seems necessary to allow some kind of area fire. My long term gaming partner and I have agreed that Z fire is allowed only in the Line of Sight plus one hex and that seems to be working well, if this is any help here.
Gordon
I am asking for all my new games that each unit only be allowed to Z fire once per turn except onboard artillery z firing smoke in LOS. Same sight restrictions, infantry 2 hexes, and 1 hex past LOS for heavy weapons.
It just does far too much suppression when compared to direct infantry fire.
I'm glad people are coming to this conclusion about Z-fire.
It's a good idea, but in practice it ruins PBEM battles.
I found myself longing for the pre-Z-fire era..
Trying to limit Z-fire is hard to monitor, better to just ban it from PBEM games.
Perhaps there's a coding fix, like have it use 5 to 10 times the ammo, then it would be harder to abuse.
Cross
Even better would be a "suppression Level" slider so you can limit it's effectiveness for a PBEM, just like arty effectiveness or spotting percentage etc.
It's hard to argue against it as a commonly used tactic in real life but in SP PBEM, it's a game killer for sure.
With an opponent you know well, and making sure you keep a close eye on the replays, you can make all sorts of rules to tone it down.
Weasel and I are trying different things each battle and slowly getting to a useable system.
Inf 100m max, one burst per unit per turn.
Support weapons any range in LOS +1, one burst per turn per unit, except for smoke shells which have no limit.
It's hard but you can still use it a crucial moments, like an assault into buildings or trees etc.
If SPCAMO could just fix the broken Op-fire filter and do something about the over effective suppression of z-fire, then we'd be back to having a great game.
Jason, did you notice in our MBT game that my single burst of MG onto your sqd was enough to pin him, which is what the object is, I forgot to mention that. How many times have you had a fire fight and neither side gets pinned, but a random burst of rifle fire sends the boys 'a running.
Bro, you should go to Shrapnel and ask them, present your idea, I heard they love listening to gamers and fixing what is broken.
Haha...nice try Chris
I'm not getting put down by them again.
Still, it's a good idea eh.
Yes, I noticed how effective that one burst was. Yet I hammer away with direct fire at one sniper and it takes 20 bursts from inf to tanks to get the guy to put his head down. it's just totally out of whack.
It's because they seem to be focused on SP being against the AI.
All those mighty SP warriors out there thrashing the pants off the computer with that brutal z-fire. It's a bit pathetic.
PBEM should be the pinnacle of this game. How can the AI, no matter how well they get it sorted, ever be anything else than a training aid for the real contest, which is a human opponent.
It stuns me that they don't bother having any contact with us here at Blitz, the most solid (if small now) place on line to play PBEM SP.
Then when we pipe up to make suggestions and comments - they smash us down like we are stupid. gee - I've only been playing since 1997...wtf would I know!
Sigh......
(02-19-2015, 09:32 AM)Weasel Wrote: [ -> ]I am asking for all my new games that each unit only be allowed to Z fire once per turn except onboard artillery z firing smoke in LOS. Same sight restrictions, infantry 2 hexes, and 1 hex past LOS for heavy weapons.
It just does far too much suppression when compared to direct infantry fire.
What about creating a sticky post with such recommended houserules?
I'd like to have some kind of common starting point for houserules.
If they are paragraphed you can easily say lets use the recommended rules except 2b,...
Just a suggestion, but I think the more experiencied players can could create a good baseline.
We use to have these, but a lot of documents were lost when we switched over to new board. We are also going to try no infantry smoke at all, and only one afv per hex as in RL you would never have 3 tanks in a 50m area unless you were in a leaguer for the night.
Making a sticky of them would be easy and can be done.