Maybe something to think about (WDS or another publisher?)

[-72-]

Usually I have started with eyeballing a map; I did this for Virginia to work out some distances from around Norfolk past Richmond to check the different amounts of hexes required at some different scales. More or less the area that I was looking at was about 150 miles long - and I think I was looking at 200 meters per hex -so basically about 8 per mile. 

Of course distance is one thing, filling in the details in between are another; but knowing the period and the approx scale, (and period) - I doubt that is going to be a significant problem.

For what it's worth, I don't actually think that Civil War has to necessarily use the Civil War engine- mainly because what is being talked about is making a different scale; in that regard what you are looking at are various features that can be transferred to the larger scale. 

Yeh sure combat requires some modification; and there are some features that are not necessary (flank, rear impact) - that's stuff that you hammer out within an engine.

I wasn't posting specifically in reply to anyone - so I mean, you've outlined some of what would needs to be done Ian, sure thing, and you're entirely correct.

I don't know, that I would use an existing map as anything other than what dimensions have been used in the past. As an estimate -probably would be just as useful to grab one of those existing boardgame maps and then get an idea of the hex dimensions you are talking about.  I started on something not as large of a scale (roughly the scale of GMT's Battles of the American Revolution) and added all of Narragansett Bay to it. Thing is, though, I don't have any details about roads around the Bay - Aquidneck Island's maps have detailed road nets (at LoC).

Edited: the attachment give an example of something done at a larger scale (and it's still 8x smaller than the proposed - and nevermind it is also for the wrong period).

[Plain Ian]

I'll have another go tomorrow night.

Ian

I'll be looking forward to what you come up with.

Oh, just curious. When you said you used the Terrible Swift Sword variant 1 scenario for the map, are you referring to one I did that's in the Gettysburg package and can be downloaded here at the Blitz? If so, you're the very first person to ever say you used it for anything.

Sorry I haven't played it but I have opened it and looked over the map and starting positions. Back in the day Talonsoft Gettysburg (and Bull Run) were my main pbem games in the ACWGC. Playing the Rebs on the opening day and coming down the Pike was one of my favourite scenarios. Of course there were 'gamey' players in the Club who used to run cavalry around your flanks and ambush you in column. 

I played the HPS version a lot although I found the new map and perspective a bit hard to get used to. 

The only TSS type  boardgames I had were Kernstown and Wilsons Creekk because these were SPI magazine issues. 

I'll see if I can get closer to 1 mile. With 125 yd hexes then the hex has to be 14 small hexes across.

[2-81 Armor]

I'll have another go tomorrow night.

Ian

I'll be looking forward to what you come up with.

Oh, just curious. When you said you used the Terrible Swift Sword variant 1 scenario for the map, are you referring to one I did that's in the Gettysburg package and can be downloaded here at the Blitz? If so, you're the very first person to ever say you used it for anything.

Sorry I haven't played it but I have opened it and looked over the map and starting positions. Back in the day Talonsoft Gettysburg (and Bull Run) were my main pbem games in the ACWGC. Playing the Rebs on the opening day and coming down the Pike was one of my favourite scenarios. Of course there were 'gamey' players in the Club who used to run cavalry around your flanks and ambush you in column. 

I played the HPS version a lot although I found the new map and perspective a bit hard to get used to. 

The only TSS type  boardgames I had were Kernstown and Wilsons Creekk because these were SPI magazine issues. 

I'll see if I can get closer to 1 mile. With 125 yd hexes then the hex has to be 14 small hexes across.

The scenarios I did using that huge map are now in a version 2, and are uploaded here with what I optimistically call design notes. I hadn't seen any downloads for this package version when I checked last, but it is a monster, and I guess of little or no interest here. The good thing is that I finally called it complete, and managed to finish weather variants also. Whoever did the weather .pdt files for the 4.0 game upgrades has my respect and gratitude. I was at wits end trying to do the .pdt for weather on my own, and it caused me to withdraw the first package when I couldn't get them to work right.

Given it's size, I think my scenario package is best used for team play, or by two really dedicated persons who want to commit for a long time. At least I managed to "scratch an itch" and had fun doing some research.

Way back in the day TSS was my first exposure to hard core ACW gaming. I was stationed in Germany with the US Army when it first came out. Two of us purchased it from SPI and played it to death, wearing out some of the counters.

I did belong to the ACWGC for a while, and I know exactly what you mean about 'gamey' when it comes to use of cavalry...I try to play using historical tactics as much as possible, and not like I'm trying to turn a 19th century simulation into 1940's blitzkrieg warfare. Even here I've encountered some that do the same thing. To each his own, but it sort of takes the fun out of things for me. That's what I play for, fun and not to win at all costs.

I've always wondered why Richard Berg (and later John Tiller) chose a ground scale of 125 yds/hex? It works, and I'm OK with it, but I just wonder why 125 when 100 yds seems to be more natural?

[-72-]

Ok - am confused now:  is it an idea about what could happen with something being designed at about a mile a hex?

If so- you are looking at an area roughly about 1000 miles by 1000 miles, and not need all of that area - It could be bigger- but it might be wasting time to do west Texas to the middle of New Mexico, where it might be maybe shown a little differently; that gives the rough dimensions of a map (and covering all of Florida ... well, it is doable, but there is a lot of space that frankly wouldn't be used) - 1000 x 1000 is an approximate map scale (and at 1 mile per hex ... 1000 x 1000 - which is and has been doable.

I'd say though that there were some artillery that could fire further than a mile. Not many, and it is further than probably the effective range of a 3' rifle but technically 21 hexes is 2625 yards which is over a mile but not 2 miles. And there are some others that have a longer range than even that.

Looking at Boardgame Geek Roads to Gettysburg II looks to be about 87 hexes wide (58 hexes being the wide map at the bottom and a guestimate of the one turned on its side being about half width of a full map.

Anyways the point is - I think your idea of area is doable.

[2-81 Armor]

I can see where this can get a little confusing.

I was brain storming and just wondering if WDS or another publisher would consider doing anything like what we've discussed.

I believe in the 5th paragraph down of my original post I say this, but maybe I could have been more concise.

So far as I know nobody is considering or working on anything at all. I certainly don't have the knowledge or skills, and I'm not associated with anyone who may.

All in all, I frankly don't think anyone in a position to make a decision or a proposal will ever read any of this, but it is nice to dream and throw some ideas out there.

[-72-]

.... don't think anyone in a position to make a decision or a proposal will ever read any of this, but it is nice to dream and throw some ideas out there.

One thing I can say with a degree of confidence, that you'd be mistaken. ;)

[2-81 Armor]

.... don't think anyone in a position to make a decision or a proposal will ever read any of this, but it is nice to dream and throw some ideas out there.

One thing I can say with a degree of confidence, that you'd be mistaken. ;)

That would be a situation where I'd really welcome being wrong!

[Plain Ian]

.... don't think anyone in a position to make a decision or a proposal will ever read any of this, but it is nice to dream and throw some ideas out there.

One thing I can say with a degree of confidence, that you'd be mistaken. ;)

That would be a situation where I'd really welcome being wrong!

Well I'm probably confusing things as well. I tend to jump into discussions without reading them properly.

I thought the original idea was to see if we could mod the original ACW game to see if we could make a more operational scaled system along the same kind of lines as happened with Panzer Campaigns and the Strategic War series?

A mile was suggested so I've made up a rough mile template and stuck it over another of my favourite scenarios from Gettysburg. 1.2 The Wheatfields. A classic training scenario/competition scenario back in the day. 
Hexes are a bit rough and they are probably under 1 mile wide. Note that the height of the hex definitely is not a mile but I think that's because the ACW hex is slightly squashed? 



As you can see in theory you could stack a Corps worth of units ,if not several, in a mile hex in ACW. 
But in the scenario above we see about 2-4 CSA Bdes per hex. 

I think in theory a rough mod could be made from the ACW engine.

OOB shouldn't be difficult. A counter for leaders above Brigade and Brigade leaders become part of the Brigade  unit/counter. 



The Parameter or pdt changes are probably the trickiest. You would need someone thats an expert on what they do and how much you can change? Or spend a long time using trial and error?



Movement rates can be changed.
Weapon effects would have to be changed and I'm not sure what happens if range is 0? I'm  also not sure how assault or melee works in ACW?

However the Time parameters would be a problem? 

Which leads me to think that the Strategic War series would be a better engine to make a rough mod with as its 2 day turns. I'm not too sure about the parameters and set up of the Strategic war series so it could be that I'm havering here. 

Ian in Dundee

[2-81 Armor]

I don't recall ever talking about modding an existing system. I did speak of a new system possibly based on the Avalon Hill/MMP board game system that might be a good starting point, and gave a few ideas for how that might be changed, but that's it.

I also don't believe that anything WDS currently has could or should be adapted (modded). This idea seems to call for something entirely new. The only thing I can think of that might fill the bill is the HPS Marching Eagles engine, but changed for hex by hex instead of area movement.

Also, I don't believe this is anything that WDS could tackle right now. They appear to have a pretty full schedule, and the development team can only cover so much. I might be wrong (only WDS would know for sure), but I think somebody like HPS or another publisher might be better suited or have the time. Regardless, the interest and audience has to be there. We are talking about $, and that's the bottom line for all things.

My whole intent is/was to air some ideas, see if there might be some interest among other Blitz Members, and hope that a publisher or developer (I'm neither!) passing through might give this some thought.

[Strela]

.... don't think anyone in a position to make a decision or a proposal will ever read any of this, but it is nice to dream and throw some ideas out there.

One thing I can say with a degree of confidence, that you'd be mistaken. ;)

That would be a situation where I'd really welcome being wrong!

You are wrong!!! 

Watch this space…