out of command? help

[phoenix]

I will have to ask this question again, sorry, as I can't find the thread from when I last asked, years ago....

I'm playing Second Kharkov-alt, PBEM, and it seems there's no way that both 6th Army, in Kharkov, and 17th Army and First Panzer Army (both south of Slavyansk) can be within the command range of AGS. Worse, there's no way that all the Corps commanders can be within command range of 6th Army. Hence all these units outside command range, you would think, should have 'OUT OF COMMAND' written on them. But not all of them do, only some of them. Can anyone explain that to me, please? 

Second, does it have any effect when Corps commanders are out of the command range of their superior Army unit, and have 'OUT OF COMMAND' written on them? I realise that front line units can have supply and recovery effects etc when out of command range of their Regiment or Division, but I haven't noticed any effects from having higher HQs 'Out of Command'. Are there any? 

All help appreciated! Thanks.

[wildb]

From the latest user manual:

At the beginning of a player’s turn, a Command Test is performed for all HQ units for that side. The Command Test begins with the highest-level HQ units for that side and for that scenario. Given a Global Supply Value of X% for the HQ side, the HQ will be in command if a randomly generated percentage is less than this Supply value.

Example: suppose that the highest-level HQ for the German command is a Panzer Corps and that the Supply Value is 80%. There is thus an 80% chance that this HQ will be In Command in any given turn.

The highest-level HQ units are marked as Out of Command if they fail this test. The Command Test then proceeds down the chain to the next level of HQ units. For these HQ units and all others in the test, the HQ has two chances to pass the Command Test. The first chance is based on the Supply test previously mentioned. If the HQ fails that test, then it is given a second chance provided that its superior HQ is not Out of Command. If the range from the HQ being tested to the superior HQ is R hexes, and if the superior HQ has a Modified Command Range of C, then the HQ unit passes the second test provided that a randomly generated number between 0 and 1 is less than C / (R + C). The Command Test been tested.

Example: We will continue with our example from above where that Panzer Corps passed its Command test. Suppose the process moves down to the HQ of the 3rd Panzer Division where that Division HQ fails the Command Test based on the Global Supply value (which was set at 80% in the above example). Since the Corps HQ is In Command, then a second test is performed. Suppose that the range from the HQ of the 3rd Panzer Division to the 24th Panzer Corps HQ is 10 and that the Command Range of the Panzer Corps HQ is 15. Then there is a 15/(10+15) or 15/25 = 3/5 chance that the 3rd Panzer Division HQ unit will pass this test and thus be In Command.

---
I will leave it to the experts for further explanations.

[Mike Prucha]

Phoenix,

"Out of Command" refers to whether a given HQ has passed its command check, not whether its within the command range of its parent HQ. There are ill-effects to higher HQs being "Out of Command" in that their subordinate HQs are less likely to pass their command checks. The "Command" and "Supply" sections in the user manual provide a thorough description

Edit: Wildb beat me to the punch!

-Mike P

[Fortynslow]

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think HQs roll for command twice, the first time based on their proximity to their higher HQ, and then a second time against the local supply value or something. They still get the second chance, even if they outside the command range of their higher HQ. In other words, I think an HQ can be in command, even if it is outside its higher HQ's command range. Furthermore, an HQ inside its higher HQs command range, can fail both these rolls and still be "Out of Command."

Having your HQ be "Out of Command" reduces the chance that you will resupply with fuel or ammo, if a unit is marked "Low Ammo" or "Low Fuel". There may be other effects, but that is what I keep my eye on.

Experten, please chime in if I have remembered this wrong.

[phoenix]

Ok. Thanks. Needless to say, I hadn't read the manual. Sorry. Thanks for the help, guys.

So in some scenarios, I just have to wear it, it seems, since it's not possible to keep everyone in a position to get best odds on those rolls.

Thanks.

[KAreil]

Take a look at Serbia'14.
Terrible supply values mean that most HQs are OutOfCommand and still you have to push on.

[Jeff Conner]

Gentlemen

I think the idea is not to try and get as many HQs in command range as possible as much as it is to put your higher HQs where they will support the most important lower level HQs.

[phoenix]

Thanks, Jeff.