PzB North Africa 1941 - Feedback

[Strela]

Hi All,

As all of us at WDS/JTS prepare for a break over the holiday period, I'd like to get some feedback on our latest release - North Africa.

The good news is that sales have been steady, not as high as Normandy (maybe due to a lack of US involvement?), but still reasonable.

That said, this was a three year effort and we would like to see some return for the time. So as we prepare for the next titles, we would like to get you opinion on what you like or don't like about North Africa so we can consider that for future Panzer Battles projects.

Thanks,

David

[ComradeP]

Positive: the look and "feel" of desert combat and the Fallschirmjaeger nightmare of landing on Crete are right on the mark.

There's a surprising amount of variety in the scenarios and the kind of battles you're fighting, and a large number are suitable for vs. AI play.

The game really shines when it comes to representing the pros and cons of each army. Playing as the Italians is like fighting with one hand tied behind your back as their infantry is the worst I've ever seen in any PzC/PB game, but they have decent to good artillery and decent tanks.

The Commonwealth divisions are peculiar as they're either infantry-heavy or tank-heavy with little to no support weapons. The faults that would continue to haunt the Commonwealth forces, poor infantry-tank cooperation and infantry divisions lacking punch are represented well. Just what kind of difficulties you run into when your tanks have no HE shells also becomes painfully, but realistically, clear.

I wasn't aware CS tanks were indirect fire weapons, I thought they used direct fire like assault guns. As they can't fire after moving, it's somewhat difficult to use them.

The German and American armies are probably the most user friendly in PzC and PB games, but in this case the Germans require some getting used to. I had forgotten that the Afrika Panzer divisions were small, and it's challenging to use them without the wide array of support weapons that we're used to. The variation in German unit quality between C and A from scenario to scenario is also nice and feels better than the generic "everything has the same unit quality" approach that already became a thing of the past with Kursk and Normandy, where the smaller scale required a closer look at the quality of divisions as opposed to the largely one size fits all approach in PzC.

Negative: not much thus far really, when you're used to the things the program handles less well. As tanks are more evenly matched here, tank combat is much less frustrating than in Kursk where you sometimes couldn't kill T-34's fast enough.

Graphics issues: There are still some issues with counters showing the wrong kind of motorization, just like when the Panzer Battles graphics were ported over to PzC Gold titles and guns moved around by trucks showed half-track graphics and the other way around.

The counter for the PaK 38 shows wheels at the closest zoom level and in the unit information box, but it's actually moved around by half-tracks. The correct counter is displayed when you zoom out.

German infantry gun counters show wheeled movement in the unit information box and at the closest zoom level and nothing on the other two zoom levels. The correct counter would be half-track movement.

88's show wheeled movement in the unit information box and the closest zoom level, but the correct half-track counter at other zoom levels.

I remember reporting this issue for Moscow '42 Gold. I'm guessing the closest zoom level copies the unit information box as it's always incorrect like the unit information box, whereas the other zoom levels form a counter based on the information given by the database.

It might be worth checking the other PzC Gold upgrades to see if it's working correctly in those games. I don't recall seeing this problem in PB Kursk, but maybe it was in PB Normandy as well. I need to get in touch with JTS to get new installers before I can check that, as my installers were corrupted when ported to a back-up USB stick.

Other comments: like the previous titles, this title would also benefit from some revisions to the mechanics and/or the math behind them, but I know this was not the time to work on that.

The 25 pounder has a HA rating of 6, which seems high. I understand the need to show the dual role of the 25 pounder, but the artillery hard attack modifier is already x5, so even with a HA of 3 the HA value would be adjusted to 15. A HA rating of 6 even when shelling units is quite powerful.

Commonwealth AT/AA "Portee" units are usually not actually Portee: they are not vehicle units and can't move when not in T-mode. Doctrinally, guns would sometimes be dismounted and sometimes kept on the truck, but if a gun is only used in a dismounted manner a regular unit name might be more appropriate to avoid confusion as Portee usually refers to guns being used when mounted on a vehicle.

As promised earlier, more detailed feedback will follow after a few PBEM games, together with the feedback on the documentation.

In all honesty, I didn't think 1940-1941 battles in Africa were going to be this interesting. Most of my interest in the past went to Rommel's finest hour at Gazala, shrugging at the Italian performance during Compass and not that intrigued by Brevity, Battleaxe or Crusader. Crusader in particular is much more dynamic than I had expected. My Battleaxe PBEM's are also fun to play thus far.

NA '42, where all sides can use concentrated or at least full strength divisions will be a very different game, but I'm looking forward to seeing if I can make some good attacks with the Italians at Gazala, when the game is released...somewhere in the next decade :)

Some of the Operation Crusader scenarios might even be suitable for a tournament when played in sequence.

[Gris]

Hi Strela,

My feed back starts with the release. I would take into consideration a release date of early December might be too close to the annual Steam winter sale. I know I for one buy many games on steam at a discount, sometimes sitting on my wish list all year, not to mention Matrix/Slitherine has theirs'. Considering JTS games rarely go on sale, some of my gaming circle choose to delay the purchase till after the holiday sales. They said they will buy, just not now. I am in no way advocating a sale price or anything of that nature (steam sales I feel cause many problems, a post for another day). However it may be worth the time to "re-market" the game after Christmas as a reminder to those who decided to delay due to the holiday sales. Please take this with a grain of salt. I obviously have little to no data and a small circle of gamers to draw this conclusion from. 

I can't fathom for the life of me why they would choose to wait, personally I would buy "Panzer Battles - Pointy Sticks - Armored Warfare in the Stone Age", so you can see my bias.

I am sure for the US customer (as I am), to forgo a non-american battle, may have merit. The Bulge, D-day, and Stalingrad are the shiny battles for us. (Although the Pointy Stick game may have appeal in the States, just sayin')

My final note for your consideration on the release is you could for your next project take note from the board gaming world and run something equivalent to a "P500" like GMT and others. Throw three game ideas out to the community via survey (not forum) or a pre-order on the store (not a sale or kickstarter, just an "I want this game") and when one hits the magic number (whatever you decide) then run with that idea. Just a thought if you are concerned with a game (or subject) lacking sales

As far as PBNA. Fantastic. I concur with Comrade P's statement above with his same caveat of needing more games played. My only add is the "Indirect fire and Airstrike by the Map" option. I have no issue with rule itself, I wish there was an indicator to tell which targets are 1/4'ed for the fire. At the moment I select spotters and look for target in visual range. Maybe I am missing something, I am new to the rule.

I absolutely love the UI options (toolbars, menus, scrolling etc) that were added. As an older gamer it is a plus when you can make things easier to see and read from within the game. Well done. 

Overall, outstanding and without hesitation, highly recommend as a must buy for any wargamer. I did not know very much on this time period and find the organization and tactics interesting. When spanned from North Afrika, to Kursk, and finally Normandy, you get a sense of the evolution for the Allies and Axis war machines. 

Accolades to all involved. 

See you in the sand - Gris

[dukemat]

I hope we don't have to wait 3 years for part 2 of Panzer Battles North Afrika.

[Al]

As an American the fact that this title didn't include any US units was not a factor in my purchase. My experience with Kursk and Normandy was a guarantee that I was going to purchase this title.

My only complaint is that the counter colors of the Commonwealth and Italians is very close and hard for my color blind eyes to easily distinguish.

[Sgt_Rock]

I LOVE the Western Desert campaigns and the Axis vs. British Commonwealth - well I cut my teeth on the old "Afrika Corps" game by AH. So this title was a great addition to the series. More Eastern Front games are a big plus. A Western Front game on Bulge and the battles of the Rhine would be very good too.

This scale works great for Salerno and Anzio as well. Less so for Sicily. Its a huge map and really it was the old end run to the western side of the island with very stubborn German defense along the eastern side of the island.

Thanks for working on this one. I am glad I got to play it. Finished up the "Enter Rommel" scenario and trying it out again as the Germans once more. Seems VERY hard to win as the Axis player but I will give it a go.

[Chris Merchant]

double post

[Chris Merchant]

Hi David,

 still have barely scratched the surface in terms of the huge number of scenarios offered.  The system is evolving nicely and it's great to see enhancements, particularly to the AI and VP areas.

Would love to see some retrograde fitting of some features to the previous PB titles.

Couple of wishlist items:

1. The new large (4X) 2D map view introduced in Gettysburg - I don't own that game yet but I assume that is a larger hex graphic set than what is available in the PB series - would LOVE to see that enabled in PB!!  Particularly if you can keep the beautiful unit photo portraits on the on-map counters.  

2. A built in 'pbem helper'  - it could simply be something that SSG have in their games, that induces the email client via MAPI (or something) and attaches the file to a new email ready to go, at the end of the turn.  Or more!  :-)   For me that would be a great help and may encourage more people to try PBEM.

Purchase decision wise, a no brainer because of the lineage of the series.  The amount of work that's gone into the games is palpable. I also appreciated the inclusion of Crete as it is a fascinating separate study of a para battle.

Thanks for the games, they are most appreciated.

[EdTanktread]

Hello David,
I would like to join with all of those who have been delighted with PBNA 41 and express my great appreciation for all the effort that has gone into it. I am currently playing scenario 410205_04v – 4th Armoured PBEM as the Italians and have noticed the following:

File Selection Dialog back ground picture #10 completely obscures the central mode section.

Divisional Markings must be turned off when working with the Bersaglieri units because their black coloring makes the unit types illegible.

The MG platoons of the motorcycle regiment do not have a motorcycle image in the Hex Area Info picture.

The Motorcycle platoons (of the same regiment) have the small white dot indicating recon unit in the Hex Area Info picture, but they are not recon units.

Most curiously, units one hex back from the edge of an embankment can see units on a lower elevation after nine hexes (have screen shot demonstrating this but can't see how to attach it here).

I’m also playing the full Compass scenario against the AI as the Allies. I’ve called in a Carpet-Bombing strike and this is represented on-map by a Stuka image.

Bells and Whistles Category:

I have no understanding of the programming effort that would be required, but two things I feel would enhance the aesthetic appeal of Panzer Battles would be: On-map images depicting the actual aircraft type involved when plotting air-strikes, rather than one generic image. And, having the number of wrecks in a hex represented by a corresponding number of burning vehicle images (1 up to 10), rather than the 3 that now appear when wrecks occur.

I thank you and the Team once again for your splendid work, and wish you a Happy New Year!

[Green]

David,
So many scenarios with the Kiwis – Can't get any better than that!

Actually, I have only scratched the surface of this massive game but my impression so far is that it is off-the-charts in terms of historical accuracy, scenario design, graphic design, etc. Not surprised it took three years.

It would be a bargain at twice the price, in my opinion. Quite literally. The amount of content could easily have been spread over a base game plus 'Crete' and 'Crusader' scenario expansion packs, for example. This approach might also have allowed for an earlier release of the base game plus time for feedback as additional content was created. And then, if there was sufficient interest, additional scenario packs covering post 1941 battles. Better for both designers and players, perhaps. But I have no idea if this is a better marketing strategy. Possibly a question for a future feedback survey?

Anyway, I do have criticisms but only of the core software the game uses. The system is showing its age and could be further improved in terms of functionality and ease of use. Obviously you know the issues and I am sure you are working on them. For me at least, if I had to choose between 'easy to use' and 'well designed and tested' it would be the latter every time, so personally I do not want to overstate this issue.

But one thing that would make a difference to me is user-assignable hotkeys. In my ignorance this would seem relatively simple to implement. I know the current assignment for hotkeys has been well thought out but for someone that also plays PzC games, the lack of consistent hotkeys between the two is frustrating. Using the same toolbar icons in PzB and PzC Gold only makes it harder to distinguish between the games. It is a small thing and I am probably in a tiny minority but this does impact my gaming experience.

That's all I have. I love to criticize but you are not making it easy.