Modern lethality

[MCab]

This may have already been discussed, but I have one issue with the MC's:  it doesn't seem THAT more lethal than WW2.

When a company of M1's attack a T72 Bn, I have a hard time believing that within a 2 hour turn only 2-3 Soviet tanks are ko'd.

Also, air strikes don't seem that decisive.  I've called in a strike of A10's on a tank unit in column, and get like 2-3 ko's. 
To the vets and historians out there, does this seem reasonable?  If not, is there a way to increase the lethality?

[Steelwhip]

1st gulf war vet here. Yeah it was only Navy but my ass was floating around right off the coast of Kuwait. Only ship of the war to engage in a naval gun battle (as much as it could be called) with a ship of the Iraqi navy.

The Highway of Death. Highway 80. A six-lane highway between Kuwait and Iraq. Over a 10 hour period (so 3 daylight turns roughly) scores of U.S. Marine and U.S. Air Force aircraft and U.S. Navy pilots from USS Ranger attacked the convoy using a variety of ordnance. The road bottle-neck near the Mutla Ridge police station was reduced to a long uninterrupted line of more than 300 stuck and abandoned vehicles sometimes called the Mile of Death. The wreckage found on the highway consisted of at least 28 tanks and other armored vehicles with many more commandeered civilian cars and buses filled with stolen Kuwaiti property. A minimum death toll of at least 500–600 seems plausible with the count going as high by some estimates as 10000 killed.

Battle of Medina Ridge. The battle, which was waged over approximately two hours(less than a single turn), was considered by some sources the largest tank battle of the war and the largest tank battle in American history.
Coalition force losses- 2 killed, 33 wounded, 4 tanks destroyed/damaged, 2 Bradley IFVs, 1 ambulance, 1 HEMTT fueler, 2 Apache helicopters shot down, 4 Humvees destroyed, 1 A-10 aircraft shot down
Iraqi losses-839 soldiers captured, 186 tanks destroyed, 127 IFVs destroyed, 72 artillery pieces destroyed, 118 trucks destroyed, 5 air defense systems destroyed

I could go on. Battle of 73 Easting, Battle of Norfolk, Battle of Al Busayyah ect

yeah id say that the lethality of the Modern Campaigns really dont capture real life situations.

However on the other end of the spectrum, you have the game 'Flashpoint Campaigns:Red Storm' where I have seen entire soviet mechanized battalions die almost to a vehicle in less than 10 minutes of shelling from a platoon of M1s.

Ive always had issues with the lack of lethality that the MC games and even the Panzer Campaigns seems to reflect. However it works within the system and framework of the game. Increasing the lethality of the combat system right now would toss the balance right out the window of all scenarios and campaigns. So i have had to just reconcile the fact that the combat system is the way it needs to be to make the scenarios and campaigns work. And thats all that counts at the end of the day.

other more knowledgable and learned people will have better insights im sure.

[Kool Kat]

I've always had issues with the lack of lethality that the MC games and even the Panzer Campaigns seems to reflect. However it works within the system and framework of the game. Increasing the lethality of the combat system right now would toss the balance right out the window of all scenarios and campaigns. So I have had to just reconcile the fact that the combat system is the way it needs to be to make the scenarios and campaigns work. And that's all that counts at the end of the day.

other more knowledgeable and learned people will have better insights I'm sure.

Thank you for your service!  

There are times when I question how lethal are the "individual" MC unit combat results.

However, as stated, when you factor in ALL the combined arms - Air strikes, helos, artillery, armor, missile-guided ordnance, mech infantry, etc. - over the span of a 2-hour turn, it works nicely.

For example, in a recent FG '85 game, as NATO with only a handful of arty, I was able to reduce multiple Warsaw Pact mech infantry battalions (500+ men each) combat ineffective in only a 2-hour turn. Not only does each arty round eliminate, on average 15 - 30 troops, (dependent on cover, etc.) it dishes out a lot of Disperses, that effectively reduce attack strength and eliminates enemy assault capability. And that's just the arty!    

Factor in your other force assets... and the virtual modern battlefield becomes quite lethal - thank you!  

[Glenn Saunders]

I dunno guys.

While I understand your point, I think the system works well

When you say lethality increases in modern war, consider losses in a days fighting at

Antietam
The Somme
D-Day
The Pusan Perimeter in Korea
Kha Sanh in Vietnam
Fallujah in Iraq

Now I don't have the numbers on Casulaities losses on each of these days, but I think over time, they are actually decreasing illustrating less lethality, not more.

Glenn

(Ps ....I know the Somme isn't a American fight but I'm a Newfoundlander and on the first day of the Somme in 1916 the Newfoundland regiment started with over 800 men and 68 remained to answer role call at the end of the day.)