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Poll: Are bunkers in PzB too difficult to bust?
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Yes
18.18%
2 18.18%
No
81.82%
9 81.82%
Total 11 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

From the Front - Bunker Assault!
09-06-2014, 10:26 AM,
#1
From the Front - Bunker Assault!
From the Front is a discussion of Tactics and mechanics of the Panzer Battles Game series.

This issue will be discussing the bunker busting in PzB Battles of Kursk - Southern Front.

Panzer Battles
Battles of Kursk - Southern Front

From the Front – Bunker Busting
Breaking though a defense in depth with a lot of bunkers stuffed full of angry Soviets is a task that every German player of Panzer Battles - Battles of Kursk - Southern Front needs to master.

There were two historical approaches.

The German 48th Panzer Korps which was on the left flank of the main assault at Kursk by the 2nd SS Panzer Korps, led with their armor first followed by the infantry. The 2nd SS Panzer Korps led with the infantry supported by Tigers, assault guns and Marders. Both of these Korps broke through the first defense lines of the Soviets. The difference was how long it took and the cost in men and material to the attacking Germans.

For our tutorial here we will look at the 2nd SS Panzer Korps method.

Thank you to Strela for conducting the assault on the Soviet fortified line as an example in this tutorial. Strela has added his insights to this tutorial that I have written up.

The brief explanation of the method is as follows;
  • Where available, make use of recon units using recon spotting or air recon to identify enemy positions and define how much force is holding the bunkers targeted for the break through.
  • Move engineers (platoon stacks only) forward to clear minefields and breach the antitank ditch. Don't forget that infantry do not need to breach the anti-tank ditch to cross. (Use the ‘on foot’ command) Breaching the anti-tank ditch is necessary for follow on vehicles, motorized or mounted infantry and guns to cross it.
  • Move your armored support adjacent to the minefields (usually two hexes away from the target fortification) and begin to direct fire the target. There is an increased chance of disrupting units (doubled) in bunkers/pillboxes from ranged hard attack weapons in direct fire mode. This also applies to indirect artillery fire. These types of fire may look ineffective but it will ultimately help to get the magic disrupt. In subsequent turns used air strikes with good hard attack values to assist in disrupting the bunker defenders. Concentrate this fire on a few bunkers at the point of attack. Resist the temptation to spread your fire power over too many targets. This only dissipates the attack and allows the defenders time to reinforce and reorganize.
  • Hold your assault infantry back in platoon stacks to reduce hex density. Only advance them adjacent to the target bunker once the minefield is cleared and preferably the defender is disrupted. You can advance all three platoons in at that point and combine into a company for the final assault. Walking around in company or greater stacks when visible to the enemy is asking to be shelled.
  • Use smoke. The enemy can see IN to a smoke hex but not THROUGH a smoke hex. Isolate your attacking units from vision of enemy units that can oversight the target area.
  • Consider isolating a bunker by advancing either side of it to reduce the defenders morale level and speed up disruption. Once disrupted, ensure there is a retreat path for the defenders before the hex is assaulted. If a retreat path is not available, the defenders will usually hold on in the fortifications longer than if they were in the open.
  • Watch your hex density at all times to reduce casualties.

Next up.... Scenes from a recent HTH PBEM Team Game
Dog Soldier
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
- Wyatt Earp
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09-06-2014, 10:41 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-06-2014, 12:17 PM by Dog Soldier.)
#2
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
Turn One
Engineers begin their work identifying and lifting the mines for the assault troops to approach the bunkers and anti-tank ditch next turn. There are only four engineer platoons currently engaged in this work. Another platoon of each of the forward the engineer companies are in reserve. A third engineer company is moving up to assist next turn. Having a reserve instead of pushing all engineer units forward immediately, grants the attackers flexibility to respond to discovery of the defense in later turns.
[Image: fig01.jpg]
figure 1

The highlighted units in the image below are all assault engineer platoons. Each is capable of breaching the anti-tank ditch or clearing additional discovered minefields.
Note the weight of AFVs positioned for this turn’s fire on the Russian occupied bunker in figure one above. Depending on the mix of hard attack weapons available to the attacking forces use as much as possible in a manner that will concentrate fire on a few selected hexes. If needed, spend a turn using smoke to blind the enemy so anti-tank guns can be brought up close to the bunkers and unlimbered safely. Assign all air strikes before making smoke to protect the attacking forces from either direct fire threats or observation by units calling in artillery. Be very careful not to place smoke where it will cover the defenders moving to the threatened sector in their turn. The attacking force wants to be able to maximize defensive shots in the other player’s turn to interdict reinforcements.
Sometimes, as is the case in the image above, the trade off of receiving enemy fire is considered worth it to be able to spot new defending positions or interdict moving enemy units.
In figure one the air units on the left are stuka attacks on suspected Soviet positions that could support the targeted defending bunker. The air unit on the right is a recon flight which will try to identify defenders both in front of the main assault and up on the hill next to the main assault point.
[Image: fig02.jpg]
figure 2 All engineer platoons are highlighted.

In figures three and four are the line of sight (LOS & light shaded areas in figures three and four) of two motorcycle recon units which will try to spot more of the defensive works and defending units on the next turn. They are in a good position of the left flank. They can spot from there or move to the right to spot in the center. It will be important to check the attacking stacks to keep them below 50% of the stacking limit so they do not block the LOS of the recon troops.
[Image: fig03.jpg]
figure 3

The recon unit in figure three is a combined unit of two platoons. Notice the numeral two (2) in the unit name.
[Image: fig4.jpg]
figure 4
The recon unit in figure four is a single platoon sized unit.

Up next... The Soviet response and second Axis turn.

Dog Soldier
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
- Wyatt Earp
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09-06-2014, 10:59 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-06-2014, 12:36 PM by Dog Soldier.)
#3
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
Turn Two
After the Soviet turn, several more defending units are revealed as they engage the attacking Germans. Some were revealed in the Russian turn. Others were revealed when they defensive fired on German units. Below is an image of the Russian defense at the beginning of the German second turn.
[Image: fig5.jpg]
figure 5 The highlighted units are disrupted.

Here are some descriptions of the Soviet defensive positions. All units are in good order except as noted. All locations are intact bunker positions.

In the front line are locations 1-3.
Location one is two Soviet Guards riflemen units and an ATG unit. One of the riflemen units is disrupted.
Location two has a Soviet Guards riflemen unit, and anti-tank rifle (ATR) unit and an ATG unit. The riflemen unit is disrupted.
Location three has the same mix of units as location two. All units in location three are in good order.

In the secondary line are locations A-D.
Locations A and B are single units of Soviet Guards riflemen.
Location C is a Soviet Guards riflemen unit and an anti-tank gun (ATG) unit. The riflemen unit is disrupted.
Location D is a Soviet Guards riflemen unit and an MG unit.

[Image: fig06.jpg]
figure 6

Above in figure 6 is the result after the German second turn.
Most of the German armor has fired on the Soviet bunkers. Engineers breached the anti-tank ditch in several places. The SS panzer grenadiers assault and take the first bunker, a 25 point victory location. By not isolating the fortification, the defenders retreat into the open and are subsequently destroyed by artillery and direct fire from supporting German infantry. They will not get a chance to join their comrades in the other bunkers. Note the smoke used to block some LOS from the Hill to the east. These smoke rounds were laid after all other artillery fires but before any direct fire or assaults. The purpose was to mask the area of attack from the Soviet over watching units on the high ground. With unlimited defensive fire, there is great risk of both anti-tank and anti-personnel fire while the Germans are exposed in front of the Soviet line. Lightly armored vehicles such as Marders and self-propelled AA units are easy prey for the Soviet 45mm ATG’s.
Air strikes are set for next turn to soften up the defenders in the next set of bunkers to be taken.

Clockwise from the top of the image (figure 6) these are the Soviet defenders of each of the four hexes with air strikes showing on top.
[Image: fig7.jpg]
figure 7
[Image: fig8.jpg]
figure 8
[Image: fig9.jpg]
figure 9
[Image: fig10.jpg]
figure 10

German StuGs have penetrated the defense along with the infantry. This armor is positioned close to all three of the next Soviet bunkers to be taken to create a breach in the Soviet fortified line. Panzer Grenadier infantry have occupied the one bunker taken this turn (25 victory point location). Additional infantry including heavy weapons units have moved forward to be ready to both assault the bunker in the center of the second line of defense and to fire on enemy units that may try to reinforce the threatened sector. Additional infantry south of the anti-tank ditch are positioned to also fire on Russian reinforcements if they try to move to the center bunker and the second 25 victory point location bunker.
Using the captured bunkers as staging areas for the next assault is a key consideration once in the defensive line. Stacking up to the 250 man limit should be utilized as there is much less chance of losses to small arms or artillery and usually the next target bunker is only two hexes away. At two hex range an infantry unit can move the one hex adjacent and then assault the next enemy position, minimizing its exposure to fire.
Engineers have moved over the anti-tank ditch to clear more mines on the other side. Other engineers have breached the anti-tank ditch to allow the passage of the vehicles (StuGs) supporting the advance.

Here is a better view of the breaches made in the anti-tank ditch.
[Image: fig11.jpg]
figure 11

In the center of the German formation assaulting the fortified line is an anti-aircraft (AA) unit providing protection for the entire group. This unit had a devastating AA value of 25/4. (25 firepower/4 hex range)
[Image: fig12.jpg] [Image: fig13.jpg]
[Image: fig14.jpg]
Figure 14

Note the size of the AA unit’s coverage range. A light blue line marking four hexes in every direction. (Arrows added for emphasis.)
Soviet planes coming to attack the force breaching the fortified defense line will face flak from this unit along with anti-aircraft fire from any units in the hex the planes attack.

Note how the penetration is confined to a small area with plenty of units nearby to lend defensive supporting fire in the next Soviet turn.

The units in all the German hexes are broken down from their company sizes so they do not block any other unit from firing in the Soviet turn. Keeping below the 50% (125 men equivalents) stacking maximum maximizes LOS and defensive fire opportunities, while reducing casualties from Soviet direct fire and artillery in the Soviet turn. There will not be any excessive German losses from crowding the hexes they occupy.

Nest up... Breakthrough!

Dog Soldier
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
- Wyatt Earp
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09-06-2014, 11:05 AM,
#4
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
Turn Three
After the Russian turn two, the two northern bunkers were reinforced with a single rifle unit each. The disrupted rifle unit in the 25 point victory location rallied. All other units status are the same as at the end of the last German turn from the German player’s point of view. The air strikes and German defensive fire caused some casualties and fatigue but no new unit disruptions.
The Soviets placed smoke in the two hexes shown to cover the rifle unit which moved to reinforce the bunker behind the smoke screen. This smoke screen will not aid any other bunkers. Nor will it prevent the Axis StuG units from firing on the bunkers adjacent to the assault guns.
[Image: fig15.jpg]
figure 15

During the Axis turn three, three of the Soviet bunkers were captured. The fourth is now isolated. The tigers were brought up to point blank range to assist the Marders in disrupting the occupants of the 25 point victory hex location bunker. Anti-tank guns south of the anti-tank ditch assisted the Marders and StuGs in disrupting the last good order rifle unit in the Soviet bunker on the left next to the anti-tank ditch. The bunker on the main road contained an already disrupted Soviet rifle unit. It was easily cleared by assault from the German infantry. Engineers are now clearing the last set of obstacles on the main road. Other engineers contributed to the infantry assaults or moved forward to keep up with the panzer grenadiers.
The Soviet line is now breached. Soviet units in the bunker locations were destroyed after they retreated by artillery and direct fire from the Axis units south of the anti-tank ditch supporting the attack.
Axis StuGs and flak units moved forward to the north while a panzer grenadier platoon moved into the field to the northeast to expand the breach. This move begins the process of closing with the Russians on the hill to east. Air strikes are called on the next Soviet bunkers to soften up the defenders as the Germans will seek to secure the breach in the fortified line next turn by widening it to those locations.

In the image below the highlighted Soviet units are all disrupted this turn. In the isolated bunker only the Soviet 45mm ATG unit remains in good order. The main road is now clear as are three of the four breaches in the anti-tank ditch. Axis vehicles can now move north and fan out east and west to roll up the Soviet positions still within LOS of the main road. Note the large stacks of German units in each bunker hex. Only units that are either clearing mines/obstacles or denying ground to the Soviets are out of the fortifications.
[Image: Fig16.jpg]
figure 16

Axis losses are tolerable for creating the breach. Hard fighting remains for the SS troopers of the LAH division. The SS panzer grenadiers and support units will be able to widen the breach to where no Soviet units can have LOS on the main road area. For now the worst is over for the Axis troops. The issue is no longer in doubt. The Soviets defenders had done all they could.
[Image: fig17.JPG]
figure 17

Finally...Conclusions...next post!

Dog Soldier
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
- Wyatt Earp
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09-06-2014, 11:13 AM,
#5
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
Conclusion
The initial and secondary Soviet bunker lines in Panzer Battles: Battles of Kursk - Southern Front can be broken quickly as they were historically. The Soviets were very slow to release their reserve forces as there was disbelief at a command level (Vatutin) on the speed the Germans demolished the Soviet prepared positions. In HTH PBEM play Soviet player responses to these tactics may cause the initial break through to be delayed. No two games will be alike. Defender troop rallies, effect of attacker’s defensive fire in the defender’s turn and the differences in actual attacker’s fire results to disrupt the defenders can and will vary from the results in this HTH PBEM game example. It is this author’s belief that it is possible to achieve a similar result with no more than four or five turns.

The use of combined arms is essential to breaking the strong defensive position. Isolating the target bunkers increases the success of the assaults on the next turn. This reduces the defender’s morale rating by one, thus increasing the chance of disruption for successful assaults. In some cases, assaults can be successful even though all defenders in the bunkers are not disrupted. A judgment call is required from experience to know the defenders are fatigued and reduced enough to allow for a successful assault.

Before assaulting, open the encirclement to allow the bunker’s defenders to retreat into the open after your successful assault. These defenders can then be eliminated by the additional troops supporting the assault and artillery fire.

Be sure the attacking forces are not over stacked to avoid undue casualties, blocked lines for defensive fire and excess fatigue on over stacked units when attacked by the defenders in their turn. Isolating the area by concentrating large numbers of units to be able to defensive fire in the defender’s turn can reduce or disrupt defending units trying to reinforce the threatened sector.

Use captured fortifications (ideally bunkers or pill boxes) to shelter units whenever possible. Only remain in an open hex when absolutely necessary, particularly when adjacent to enemy forces.

After reading this tutorial, have you, dear reader, changed your opinion about bunker busting in PzB? Respond on this thread and let me know! All questions and comments are welcome. We are here to help.

Strela and I hope you are enjoying Panzer Battles: Battles of Kursk - Southern Front as much as we had fun developing it with the great Panzer Battles Development and Play Test Team. They are all outstanding gamers who are passionate about bringing this series to life!

Dog Soldier
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
- Wyatt Earp
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09-06-2014, 10:25 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-06-2014, 10:27 PM by ComradeP.)
#6
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
Though I agree with most of the tactics (I don't agree with placing Marders in visible positions near the front, they're extremely fragile), in my opinion the situation shown is misleading.

There will be very few scenarios where you have such lavish means as this one, and such a short distance to cross to the initial Soviet line with good troop concentrations already in place. It's sort of the most favourable scenario for the Germans and the worst for the Soviets, with a very shallow bunker line and most of their forces being Fixed.

I stand by my earlier points that in the majority of situations, taking bunkers depends too much on getting a disruption roll, which can't always be influenced to the necessary extent by the player.

If this was for the recent teamgame for this scenario, it might also be fair to point out that the scenario didn't end with the historical result, nor did any of the other full day (with the day in the scenario title) corps-sized campaign scenario battles logged thus far (all ended with minor or major Soviet victories), which does not support the idea that the Germans can normally achieve what they could historically.
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09-07-2014, 12:10 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-07-2014, 03:29 AM by Strela.)
#7
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
(09-06-2014, 10:25 PM)ComradeP Wrote: Though I agree with most of the tactics (I don't agree with placing Marders in visible positions near the front, they're extremely fragile), in my opinion the situation shown is misleading.

There will be very few scenarios where you have such lavish means as this one, and such a short distance to cross to the initial Soviet line with good troop concentrations already in place. It's sort of the most favourable scenario for the Germans and the worst for the Soviets, with a very shallow bunker line and most of their forces being Fixed.

I stand by my earlier points that in the majority of situations, taking bunkers depends too much on getting a disruption roll, which can't always be influenced to the necessary extent by the player.

If this was for the recent teamgame for this scenario, it might also be fair to point out that the scenario didn't end with the historical result, nor did any of the other full day (with the day in the scenario title) corps-sized campaign scenario battles logged thus far (all ended with minor or major Soviet victories), which does not support the idea that the Germans can normally achieve what they could historically.


Well I have to disagree with you ComradeP.

This is the July 6 scenario for the SS and this is essentially the final defensive line for the Soviets. You can do exactly what has been done here with the July 5 scenarios. Any scenario from July 7 onward will not run into any form of bunker line so I don't really see where you get your 'lavish' comment from. The July 5 scenarios are definitely 'lavish' also.

As far as comparing the recent team game, well this is the reverse play of it with the more experienced players on the German side. A number of things have been changed in the reverse play through to actually assist the Soviets - they have less fixed units and the VP's have been increased by 300 points for each victory level making it harder for the Germans.

Yet despite these 'impediments' the German side is well on top at the one third mark. They have used the historical tactics in the historical breakthrough zone and guess what(!) they are about where the Germans were historically at this point.

In the previous game the German's used much more of a broad front approach and took much longer to breach the line. That approach resulted in them being bogged in the defences and taking heavy casualties to both Soviet artillery as well as the ability for the defenders to reinforce key points.

You make a point out of getting a 'disruption roll'; of course that's the point, and using these tactics allows you to maximise that chance. I don't really get your point; should a player not put maximum firepower in a few select locations to pretty much guarantee breaking up the defenders? If your basing your argument on the 'Gertsovka time limit' which makes that scenario swing on a 'lucky' disrupt, well that's been fixed for the patch, by extending the number of turns. That experience should not be used as the yardstick for every other scenario.

As far as your Marder comment, yes they are vulnerable, but did you notice the smoke shielding the hill? That was to specifically ensure that the Marders were not hit by the ATG up there. The Marders tended to stand off a little more and move regularly to ensure artillery didn't pick them off.

[ I have removed the last two paragraphs I wrote in the original post as I believe they were both too harsh and could have been considered a personal attack. That was not my intention and by removing the paragraphs prevents any mis-interpretation]

David
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09-07-2014, 03:51 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-07-2014, 03:52 AM by ComradeP.)
#8
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
Quote:You can do exactly what has been done here with the July 5 scenarios. Any scenario from July 7 onward will not run into any form of bunker line so I don't really see where you get your 'lavish' comment from. The July 5 scenarios are definitely 'lavish' also.

The 5th and 6th of July II SS Panzerkorps scenarios are quite different in their setup. On the 5th, it takes the SS longer to get to the Soviet line in strength and they don't have a lot of armor.

They also need to breach 5-6 bunker/pillbox lines. III Panzerkorps also needs to break through about 6 bunker lines, with staggered activation of its units on the 5th. XXXXVIII Panzerkorps has armour from fairly early on, but it needs to cross terrain that can only be crossed in T mode through 2 bunker lines, followed by another bunker line behind it, though you could also concentrate on a certain point there are you decide how to approach the objectives.

That makes the 5th of July scenarios fundamentally different, as on the 6th the SS is in place to make a good breakthrough in a handful of turns due to starting more or less next to the Soviet bunker Soviet line at the start of the scenario.

Quote:You make a point out of getting a 'disruption roll'; of course that's the point, and using these tactics allows you to maximise that chance. I don't really get your point; should a player not put maximum firepower in a few select locations to pretty much guarantee breaking up the defenders?

Yes, but my problem with that argument is that it is generally assumed that such a thing is always possible. The main problem the Germans face, is that it isn't. In many scenarios, that maximum firepower aimed at a certain point might be the best strategy, but the forces to do so are either not available or also essentially required at multiple locations due to the strict VP's/timetables. The VP and scenario changes you mention for the 6th of July scenario sound good, I can only comment on the current versions.
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09-08-2014, 05:27 AM,
#9
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
(09-07-2014, 03:51 AM)ComradeP Wrote: The 5th and 6th of July II SS Panzerkorps scenarios are quite different in their setup. On the 5th, it takes the SS longer to get to the Soviet line in strength and they don't have a lot of armor.

No, I disagree that the July 5th & 6th scenarios in the II SS PzK sector are fundamentally different. There is just more bunkers in the July 5th scenario as this was the first line of defense and more dense than the secondary line of defense encountered the next day on the 6th.

They also need to breach 5-6 bunker/pillbox lines. III Panzerkorps also needs to break through about 6 bunker lines, with staggered activation of its units on the 5th. XXXXVIII Panzerkorps has armour from fairly early on, but it needs to cross terrain that can only be crossed in T mode through 2 bunker lines, followed by another bunker line behind it, though you could also concentrate on a certain point there are you decide how to approach the objectives.

That makes the 5th of July scenarios fundamentally different, as on the 6th the SS is in place to make a good breakthrough in a handful of turns due to starting more or less next to the Soviet bunker Soviet line at the start of the scenario.

I would like to point out that in the July 5th scenario in the II SS PzK sector the game begins at night just before dawn. The Germans have a battalion available to clear the initial Russian positions that can see the approach of the rest of the the LAH division when it moves out at dawn.

The Russians are fixed in their bunker lines until they spot German units the majority of the game. That reflects the orders of the higher Soviet command to the front line Soviet formations to hold in place. Such orders were not disregarded.
The German LAH division player has a lot of flexibility due to this to approach the bunker lines of the first MLD at Kursk on the Southern Front.

30 StuG assault guns backed up by 14 Tigers appear at 07:00 (turn 9 or 38). A little less than 25% of the game has elapsed since then allowing the Axis player to recon and clear the initial first line of bunkers. This powerful armor group will support clearing the rest of the first line and the penetration of the second belt of defenses which took months to prepare and only one day for LAH and Das Reich to penetrate.

Along with all the ATG batteries attached to the PzGr battalions of the LAH division and with elements of the Das Riech PzGr division that start on the right of the LAH division make for a powerful force for a single Guards Rifle division (52nd) to contend with.

I just thought people should know...

Dog Soldier
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
- Wyatt Earp
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09-08-2014, 05:43 AM,
#10
RE: From the Front - Bunker Assault!
This is my two cents toward this game when I 1st started playing I thought the Bunkers were ridiculously hard and I was about to the point where if I was going to play a scenario as Germans and had to attack a defensive belt with bunkers I wasn't going to play it anymore I was probably at the same point a lot of you guys are.I have been playing Brian (Dog Soldier) and David (Strela) and they and others have giving me tips just like they have posted here if you follow what they have posted here it does make a hell of a difference.I know every game will not play just like is played out in the scenario that has been posted sometimes you will get through quickly and sometimes it seems like the bunkers are full of Heroes of the Soviet Union. I know most of the guys here are old board gamers like me and sometimes whether you get the disruption or pin comes down to the lucky dice roll
after all the is a game and every single contingency can not be covered.

One tip from me this if you play Squad Battles and or PZC this is a different game and some of the tactics you use in those games don't work here.I think that was some of my problems when I 1st started playing this game.I know I might not be the best player but I do play a lot of these games if you incorporate the stuff that has been shown in this post they will help you.

Thanks for reading my post.
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