Weapon - strength or effectiveness

[Stejones82]

What is weapon strength as opposed to weapon effectiveness? Are these two terms used interchangeably in the user.pdf manual? I quote:

from units\unit types:

A Weapon unit consists of one or more weapons. Weapons can consist of individual weapons, crew served weapons, and specialized weapons. The example here shows an individual weapon where the number at the bottom is

the number of weapons of that type in the unit. The display also shows the name of the weapon, its effectiveness (as a percentage value), and the number of times it can fire in the current turn. When an asterisk (*) follows this number, it indicates the weapon is capable of Indirect Fire (see the section on Firing).

And from Assaulting\Assault Values:

Assault Values
In the resolution of an Assault, the assault value of the attacking and defending units is computed according to the following:
• The assault value of a Leader is the Infantry Assault parameter data value.
• The assault value of a Team is the strength of the Team times the Infantry Assault parameter data value.
• The assault value of a Weapon is the strength of the weapon times the assault value of the weapon.

So my question is: Is the Assault value of a weapon the effectiveness percentage (effectiveness) * the assault value of a weapon?

For example in Vietnam, the assault value of a M-16 is 18. If the effectiveness of the actual weapon is 50%, does that make its assault value 9 (18 * 0.50)?

Are weapons degraded by the effectiveness for assault calculation or not?

So, in essence the terms strength and effectiveness are interchangeable.
Steve

[Jeff Conner]

Steve

My understanding is that the manual is using strength and number interchangeably as in the number of men in the team or squad and the number of weapons in the unit. While effectiveness does affect lethality in the fire routine, I don't think (although I am not positive and I don't think it is clearly spelled out anywhere in the manual) that it affects assault values. If it did, I think Tiller would have included it in the calculation and it is my experience that tired units with weapons that have low effectiveness values still assault pretty well.

[Stejones82]

That is the big question - does weapon effectiveness affect the Assault result calculation?

That does influence tactics on both defense and offense. If anyone has a definitive answer (Oz? Rich?) I and other enquiring minds would like to know!

Steve

[Jeff Conner]

Since you didn't accept my answer based on my reading of the rules and experience, I conducted a test using a scenario I created for the purpose. I had six identical squads make assaults. However, one was the control at 100% effectiveness for both weapons and squad. I then had weapons at 50%, squad at 50%, both weapons and squad at 50%, weapons at 75% and squad at 75%. The control caused an average of 1.8 casualties per assault. Lowest, was the unit with 50% weapons and 50% squad effectiveness at 1.7 casualties per assault. All of the other iterations were higher with the most being 2.7 casualties with the squad at 50%. Granted, I only ran this test ten times, but I think it is pretty clear that effectiveness of both weapons and squads is not taken into consideration in assault calculations. However, feel free to run your own tests and come up with your own conclusions.

Jeff

[Stejones82]

Nice work, Jeff! Thanks! I hope other players beside you and me take note of this - that is except the ones who face-off against me!

So I guess the answer is: so long as you get there, your assault will not be affected by either weapons effectiveness nor squad effectiveness. The problem, of course, being the getting there.

Again, thanks!

[Embis]

I hope other players beside you and me take note of this - that is except the ones who face-off against me!

Oh I am taking note of this Steve, I am taking VERY close note of this, and it has cheered me up considerably, about to play our Vietnam turn now in fact!!

Thanks for that Jeff

[TheBigRedOne]

Always remember that this is only one factor when figuring out an assault. Terrain (uphill, downhill), state of a squad (disrupted, pinned, demoralized, etc) and morale play major factors as well...

[Stejones82]

I hope other players beside you and me take note of this - that is except the ones who face-off against me!

Oh I am taking note of this Steve, I am taking VERY close note of this, and it has cheered me up considerably, about to play our Vietnam turn now in fact!!

Thanks for that Jeff

Ah Nice!

Well, in truth, I was thinking of our little affair. Hope it helps!

Looking forward to your turns!