Bunker Busting and armor

[Many Mariuses]

Hello all,

I'm fairly new to the Panzer Campaign system, and though I've picked up quite a bit through discussions with my PBEM opponents, I'm still learning.

So far, the toughest aspect of the game to master is attacking bunkers (though opposed river crossings can be quite difficult as well). I've read most every article I can find regarding the game, including RickyB's excellent article, "Attacking Fortified Positions."

One of the tips I keep reading about is to use armor to fire on bunkers, as they tend to have superior hard attack values. This tactic seems reasonable, but I (and another one of my opponents who is fairly new) have yet to see it actually work. Generally, when my armor fires vs. a bunker I get a "No Effect" result. Unsupported assaults are disastrous as well. I've tried grouping my armor with infantry when firing as well.

What am I missing? Is there a particular technique to employing armor vs. bunkers? FWIW, my only title at the moment is Kharkov '42 (though that will soon change ), so I realize this problem might relate to the limitations of the Soviets at the time.

[Tide1]

Hello all,

I'm fairly new to the Panzer Campaign system, and though I've picked up quite a bit through discussions with my PBEM opponents, I'm still learning.

So far, the toughest aspect of the game to master is attacking bunkers (though opposed river crossings can be quite difficult as well). I've read most every article I can find regarding the game, including RickyB's excellent article, "Attacking Fortified Positions."

One of the tips I keep reading about is to use armor to fire on bunkers, as they tend to have superior hard attack values. This tactic seems reasonable, but I (and another one of my opponents who is fairly new) have yet to see it actually work. Generally, when my armor fires vs. a bunker I get a "No Effect" result. Unsupported assaults are disastrous as well. I've tried grouping my armor with infantry when firing as well.

What am I missing? Is there a particular technique to employing armor vs. bunkers? FWIW, my only title at the moment is Kharkov '42 (though that will soon change ), so I realize this problem might relate to the limitations of the Soviets at the time.

Hi Caiussulla

The bunker busting in PzC can drive you to contemplate suicide for sure. I've been killing some time the last couple of days playing the Minsk'44 Campaign. In that game the Russians have massive arty support so I actually have been able to disrupt enemy units in bunkers then assault with tanks and infantry and drive them out. To try and assault undisrupted units in a bunker in my opinion is a forlorn hope and will cause huge losses to your troops. Come to think of it in the Moscow'42 Campaign I'm playing, my Germans are into turn 8 and still have not been able to take any bunkers. And in that scenario the areas I'm trying to move through have bunkers in every other hex.. Most of the time I try to hit the softer trench's around the bunkers and work around and isolate them if possible. But in Rzhev'42 even that is darn near impossible.
As a suggestion if you like the Ostfront get Smolensk'41. There are fortifications but lots of maneuver room. And Korsun'44 has a good amount of Russian arty to smash those bunkers into kindling.

[Kuriltai]

so I realize this problem might relate to the limitations of the Soviets at the time.

I think you hit the nail on the head here.Its not that the bunkers are to tough,Russian armor units are just too small to have a lot of punch.
You just have to be patient and go one at a time.Pick on the ones in clear terrain if possible.Its been a while and I might be wrong,but I think the 18/24/36 gun 152mm units were the key.Get your 76mm AT up to give a hand.
When you do assault,make sure the defender can retreat out of the hex.After you have taken one bunker use Isolation to help roll up the next IF you have to widen the breach.


You should try to get off Omaha beach if you want some spectacular bunkers...

[Compass Rose]

That is why I enjoy playing the Western Theater and North Africa & Mediterranean Theater titles so much more as they have alot less bunkers to deal with!

[Many Mariuses]

Excellent suggestions all. I suspect that I'm not the only new player who is learning the system (I learned about the game through the Ipad apps, and know of several others).

Patience and careful planning certainly seem to be virtues when breaching a fortified line, along with copious artillery Of course, the delayed disruption rule (which most seem to prefer) makes the prospect a bit more difficult.

The game does a great job of representing the limitations of the Russian tank brigade organization of the time. They are mobile enough to do some neat things if you can break through, but that's a big if. Not terribly great in a combat role though.

[Mr Grumpy]

I don't have this title, but in most titles with Russian forces they have plenty of arty, arty has twice the chance to cause a disruption under the "pounding" rule and if you don't have units with decent HA values then this is the best way forward.

It is true that with the delayed disruption rule in place the process is more difficult.

Mass infantry assaults can also work if the defenders are only a couple of hundred strong, i had some B quality French troops in a bunker in a Gazala scenario, my opponent used massed assaults by Italian battalions to wear my forces down over a day or so, his losses were not that severe and i was surprised how effective this tactic was.

[ComradeP]

The 800 men German battalions are very difficult to disrupt, it might actually be quite a bit easier (but still hard) to disrupt German defenders in the pre-4 company battalion games than in, say, Moscow '42.

[Many Mariuses]

The discussion prompts a related question, which I alluded to in my first post. If you have weak armor units (such as the Russians in K42), should they combine their fire with other units in the hex, or fire individually?

I realize there are a number of other factors involved here. It seems as though generally, you should fire each unit separately, as it triggers more morale checks on the opposing unit (if this is incorrect, please let me know). On the other hand, I can see how at certain times you might want to combine fire, such as in situations where you want to minimize opportunity fire.

Still, in a situation where the firing unit is most likely to get a "No Effect" result, it seems more beneficial to combine fire with other friendly units to boost its effectiveness. Thoughts?

[Tide1]

The discussion prompts a related question, which I alluded to in my first post. If you have weak armor units (such as the Russians in K42), should they combine their fire with other units in the hex, or fire individually?

I realize there are a number of other factors involved here. It seems as though generally, you should fire each unit separately, as it triggers more morale checks on the opposing unit (if this is incorrect, please let me know). On the other hand, I can see how at certain times you might want to combine fire, such as in situations where you want to minimize opportunity fire.

Still, in a situation where the firing unit is most likely to get a "No Effect" result, it seems more beneficial to combine fire with other friendly units to boost its effectiveness. Thoughts?

I was told or read that you should fire one unit at a time when I first started playing and you can see the AI doing it during it's turn. But I just don't have the patience for all that and I go in with all guns blazing.

[Mr Grumpy]

Still, in a situation where the firing unit is most likely to get a "No Effect" result, it seems more beneficial to combine fire with other friendly units to boost its effectiveness. Thoughts?

yes, in that situation you should try a combined shot.