Removing units from map

[Stejones82]

Do units which are removed from the map count as losses for VP purposes?

In a hypothetical scenario (close your eyes and ears, Ed) say I had enough Jeeps to make a decent used car lot which are useful as the proverbial teats on the boar hog. And say I'd rather remove them from the map than let them become casualties.

Will my opponent gain Victory Points for these units so removed?

Is it a "gamey" tactic which violate the high ethical standards of a gentleman's agreeement?

[Compass Rose]

I am pretty sure (99%) that you will not be penalized for removing them off the map.

Now, as for it being a "gamey" tactic which violates the high ethical standards of a gentleman's agreement, you are about to open a "can of worms"!


I can see both sides of this "issue" however, from my POV, the situation would dictate.


If your opponent has cornered you into a area of the map and you expect to be assaulted any turn, and you decided to remove units off the map to avoid point losses for them being destroyed/wrecked, I feel that this would be a "gamey tactic".

If you have a ton of non-combat units (units that have no main guns or machine guns) that have not been spotted or fired upon by the enemy, and there is no good areas to hide them from being shot up and easily destroyed, costing you the whole game based on just those losses alone, I would be tempted to remove them from the map.

If I was playing a scenario where I was in charge of a transportation column and was attacked by the enemy, then I would leave 100% of those units on the map. From my POV, removing any vehicle that was already attacked or fired upon would be "gamey", unless the scenario dictates it and the primary goal of the scenario is for you to advance your units to a exit point and remove them off the map (this can normally happen in the Napoleonic Battles series, and a few others).

What scenario are you referring to? I would like to see it so I could have a better idea of the situation.

[Richie61]

[Dog Soldier]

In the sense of a tactical game of SB, it seems perfectly logical that scarce resources like transport move off the board after dropping off the troops for the engagement. Transport units would move off to a safe distance as SOP to await being called back to remove the troops they brought to the battle or to move off to other duties.
After the game clock is completed, if your troops were looking to leave, would the officers not recall the transport and try to get as much of their forces out of the combat zone as they could as quickly as they could? I know this is beyond the scope of the game, but it make sense the transport would not stay 'on map' if the map was 'hot' and risk destruction. What purpose would it serve?

I think it becomes a personal decision. For me I have never considered that the world ended at the edges of the game map. How can one consider the units in a hopeless situation with no retreat because of a map edge? The idea of a force field map edge is gamey to me.

If I can not catch those enemy troops before they leave the battlefield, then I do not deserve any victory points for them. I am glad enough to have chased them off the field freeing up my (pursuit) troops for other duties. In this case the enemy force is now weaker. Those guys which leave the game map are not coming back. That in itself is a bit gamey. After chasing them away, I do not have to guard against their rally and return. A no cost transaction.

There are those who believe as CR posted above that units cannot exit the map to avoid destruction. If it agreed upon before the game starts or if I see the other guy not exiting his troops when pinned to the board edge, (like penned sheep), then I will play that way too with my guys. After all it only a game. And games do have some artificial boundaries.

Strange though, do the units think they want to be destroyed?

Dog Soldier

[Jeff Conner]

You are not penalized for removing units from the map. You may be rewarded for doing so if they leave via an exit objective. Otherwise, I agree with Dog Soldier that if you can't kill them before they exit the map, the opportunity is lost. However, I am aware that there are players who think otherwise.

There are also scenarios where if one player removes his units from the map as quickly as possible, he can prevent his opponent from winning. This is usually the result of the objective values not being large enough to allow victory. These are not as common in SB as they are in some other game engines, but they do exist. In this situation, I believe you owe your opponent the courtesy of at least giving him a decent fight, especially if you picked the scenario.

[TheBigRedOne]

Do units which are removed from the map count as losses for VP purposes?

In a hypothetical scenario (close your eyes and ears, Ed) say I had enough Jeeps to make a decent used car lot which are useful as the proverbial teats on the boar hog. And say I'd rather remove them from the map than let them become casualties.

Will my opponent gain Victory Points for these units so removed?

Is it a "gamey" tactic which violate the high ethical standards of a gentleman's agreeement?

In most cases, if there is a exit hex, you will gain victory points for removing units from the board, not the opposite. As Jeff said, often there are scenarios based specifically on getting troops off the map. Since I don't know what scenario you are playing, it's hard to determine what tactics are best employed.

[Stejones82]

In most cases, if there is a exit hex, you will gain victory points for removing units from the board, not the opposite. As Jeff said, often there are scenarios based specifically on getting troops off the map. Since I don't know what scenario you are playing, it's hard to determine what tactics are best employed.

Eagles Strike - Bouck's Band - Playing as US

What I am gathering from the answers, though Ed, your link did not function, is:

1. Units can exit the map.
2. The opponent does not receive VPs for those units as if they were destroyed.
3. I am not referring to "Exit Objective" hexes, merely exiting units to keep the VPs from the opponent. (Note: as the scenario progresses, the German does not seem to have armor, so perhaps this is a moot point after all. But I did not know that, and perhaps armor will come as reinforcements. I like to play, when possible, without starting a solo scenario to know that the other guy has. More fun for me.)
4. "Gamey" - possibly, depending upn the actual player and the situation. Jeeps are low value VP units anyway (at least I think so) so moving them off map is okay here. Like the transport unit moving off the line - one would expect that. And who knows - next time I play this scenario, perhaps I will use them in a flying column to hit the flank of the German approach. Though the snow conditions pretty much negate the "flying" attribute!
5. Thanks as always to all who responded. I get smarter and better with every PBEM game!

Steve

[gabeeg]

I feel that that transport units should and would head well to the rear after dropping off their troops...they do in real life (unless armed and armored of course). If an opponent objects, you should be able to do the *real* gamey tactic of using them for recon by fire :)

For me personally, I usually just move them behind cover or way back out of LOS in an area that will not attract arty or indirect fire. I do not recall a scenario I actually had to remove them to keep them safe.

[Richie61]

I feel that that transport units should and would head well to the rear after dropping off their troops...they do in real life (unless armed and armored of course). If an opponent objects, you should be able to do the *real* gamey tactic of using them for recon by fire :)

For me personally, I usually just move them behind cover or way back out of LOS in an area that will not attract arty or indirect fire. I do not recall a scenario I actually had to remove them to keep them safe.

I always pull mine back or hide them. They are worth points to lose or kill.