Bug in optional rules?

[jonnymacbrown]

Maybe not when most of the German AF in the _alt version are carpet bombers who ignore the Limited Air Recon optional rule which is part of the game mechanics.

Maybe it is an oversight in the _alt OOB design. Campaign games are by nature a hornet's nest of variables for the designer to consider.

Dog Soldier

It just seems to me that keeping an alternative version of the game yer playing to see when the opponent's reinforcements come on, then search at the entry hex when they do and bomb 'em in column as they enter is something that shouldn't be done. jonny :smoke:

[alaric99x]

OK, what about artillery strikes against question marks? I do that all the time, I even look for question marks because I know they are almost certainly enemy artillery batteries. Is there any problem with doing that?

[jonnymacbrown]

OK, what about artillery strikes against question marks? I do that all the time, I even look for question marks because I know they are almost certainly enemy artillery batteries. Is there any problem with doing that?

I think that's perfectly fine. I just think me studying a copy of the scenario and seeing when the opponent's reinforcements arrive and bombing the entry area is something of quite a different order. :whis:

[alaric99x]

Indeed, an element of quite a different order.

Now I wonder, what about holding reinforcements off the map. I've done this a number of times. Enemy units may have bypassed entry hexes and bringing them on would mean isolation and elimination. My reasoning is that a reinforcing column moving along a road, or anywhere else, would have some kind of recon that would (usually) let them know that the road or area they're moving toward is now occupied by the enemy. When entry hexes are already occupied, I choose not to enter reinforcements. Any problem with me doing that?

[jonnymacbrown]

Indeed, an element of quite a different order.

Now I wonder, what about holding reinforcements off the map. I've done this a number of times. Enemy units may have bypassed entry hexes and bringing them on would mean isolation and elimination. My reasoning is that a reinforcing column moving along a road, or anywhere else, would have some kind of recon that would (usually) let them know that the road or area they're moving toward is now occupied by the enemy. When entry hexes are already occupied, I choose not to enter reinforcements. Any problem with me doing that?


I think that's also perfectly fine. When I designed Dark Winter (B44) I had strategic options for all Allied entry areas, each one farther west than the other, hoping to avoid the situation you speak of. I wonder, in F 40, is there the feature that disorders all enemy units within 3-5 hexes of a reinforcing column when entering, protected entry hexes? :smoke:

[Ricky B]

You can check for protected hexes, which are set by the individual reinforcement, by either opening the scenario in the editor and checking the reinfs, or opening the game with the scenario and getting to the opposing side - then check View - Shade - Protected hexes.

[Marquo]

IMHO the carpet bombers are too powerful in the alt_campaigns; we discussed this on a thread about a year ago. Not only are they too powerful, in the time frame of the game the ability to coordinate with recon and combined arms is a bit uncanny.

Happy New Year,

Marquo

[jonnymacbrown]

IMHO the carpet bombers are too powerful in the alt_campaigns; we discussed this on a thread about a year ago. Not only are they too powerful, in the time frame of the game the ability to coordinate with recon and combined arms is a bit uncanny.

Happy New Year,

Marquo

For a number of reasons (accurate maps, short distances, familiar terrain) Luftwaffe-Army coordination never worked as well for the Germans as it did in this campaign. It was in truth uncanny. jonny :cool2:

[Volcano Man]

IMHO the carpet bombers are too powerful in the alt_campaigns; we discussed this on a thread about a year ago. Not only are they too powerful, in the time frame of the game the ability to coordinate with recon and combined arms is a bit uncanny.

Happy New Year,

Marquo

Well, as I said before -- it depends on who you are playing against. I use carpet bombers and rarely hit anything useful. In reality, it is the enemy that determines how effective YOUR carpet bombers will be. If he doesn't stack tons of T mode units in densely concentrated areas then they simply won't be very effective, regardless of what you hit.

However, to me that argument about historical coordination makes no sense. The fact that you have a high probability of hitting nothing because of scatter (providing that you are not playing someone dishonest who is loading and saving the turn until they hit what they want), and the fact that you can hit your own units, means that they are, by their vary nature, DIFFICULT to coordinate as opposed to a surgical strike that can pin point a target unit and hex that is adjacent to your own units. That is the whole point of the carpet bomber mechanic. Also, I do not add more strategic bombers to the OOB, I only change the type to level bombers to prevent the surgical strike effect. So, I find it ironic to say that in the argument they do not have the historical level of coordination to carry out a coordinated carpet bomb attack against a wide area, yet they do have the ability to carry out a pin point close air support run in each hex in an area to conduct coordinated support for ground forces.

That said, it really boils down to how the whole air system works in general though -- and in the end if it is felt that there are too many bombers available then the best change probably lies in reducing the availability rate. Also, you have no real way to know if someone is cheating the level bombing mechanic other than to watch and see if they just happen to hit the nice fat juicy target that is surrounded by unoccupied hexes each turn. The very fact that this could happen again and again would represent impossible luck, especially since I can rarely manage to hit anything other than terrain. I recall my Compass '40 campaign as the Italians where I was very good at bombing the sea along the coast. Many dead fish surely washed up on shore because of my bombing runs. ;) All I can say to everyone is: don't give into the temptation to load/save when doing the bombing runs and don't play someone who you suspect is cheating. Those two things are what keeps carpet bombers from being too powerful.

[alaric99x]

Right, it's a very accurate statement in saying that the enemy side determines the effectiveness of your carpet bombers. You can't generally see who's in t-mode, but it's usually not hard to find a cluster of units in close proximity to a target hex. If your bombing mission drifts from the intended target, there will be a good chance that it will hit units in an adjecant hex. Those are the kind of targets I always look for.