A Close Run Thing

[Troll]

Hi Peoples

I did some minor adjustments on the "A Close Run Thing" scenario.

1) I removed the Islands and placed the navel guns on ships.

2) I added the 504 Parachute Regiment, the 3rd battalion landed on the beaches and the 1st and 2nd battalion (s) landed in the Altavilla area.

3) All reinforcements are the same.

4) All units and the % of when all reinforcements arrive are the same with the exception of 1) and 2) above.

If anyone is interested in the files let me know at

[email protected]

Cheers

Joe

[Jim von Krieg]

Hi Peoples

I did some minor adjustments on the "A Close Run Thing" scenario.

1) I removed the Islands and placed the navel guns on ships.

2) I added the 504 Parachute Regiment, the 3rd battalion landed on the beaches and the 1st and 2nd battalion (s) landed in the Altavilla area.

3) All reinforcements are the same.

4) All units and the % of when all reinforcements arrive are the same with the exception of 1) and 2) above.

If anyone is interested in the files let me know at

[email protected]

Cheers

Joe

Joe, please send it to me... I'd like to check it out...

Thanks,

Jim

[Von Earlmann]

Hi Peoples

I did some minor adjustments on the "A Close Run Thing" scenario.

1) I removed the Islands and placed the navel guns on ships.

2) I added the 504 Parachute Regiment, the 3rd battalion landed on the beaches and the 1st and 2nd battalion (s) landed in the Altavilla area.

3) All reinforcements are the same.

4) All units and the % of when all reinforcements arrive are the same with the exception of 1) and 2) above.

If anyone is interested in the files let me know at

[email protected]

Cheers

Joe

would have been nice to have been asked :-(

VE

[John Given]

Troll, there are a few unwritten rules about changing other people's scenarios you should probably be aware of. Remember that when you revise a scenario,

a. always choose new names for the map, oob, scn, and picture files. Otherwise they will overwrite the original scenario. You did do this, right?

b. Some scenario designers get a bit touchy (or even deeply offended) by folks changing things about their scenarios. If you want changes made, it's probably best to contact the scenario designer and tell him what should be changed. If he resists, only share the (revised) scenario between you and your friends and play it that way - don't upload it to the database.

Only if it's a scenario made by someone that no longer frequents the boards should you expect a snowball's chance in hell of him letting you change his scenario, but at the very least, it wouldn't hurt to ask him.

And for posterity's sake, I've been guilty of rule 'b' in the past, but I also don't upload my scenarios to the database.

Sorry if I come across as condescending or anything - it's unintentional. Just be mindful that the designer put a lot of work into the scenario, be respectful, and you should be fine.

[Von Earlmann]

Having thot about it for a few days.......I will never allow public access to any of my .scn files again.........I don't care if you don't like them.....that's ok but by damn leave them alone!.......I have played plenty of scenarios I don't like that were written by other folks but I have never had the audacity to change another persons creation........my scenarios usually depict what I intend them to depict......doesn't mean everyone will like or understand where I was coming from..............but where I'm coming from now is protecting what I created as it was created.

VE

[Scud]

If you want changes made, it's probably best to contact the scenario designer and tell him what should be changed.

That pretty much says it all. These scenarios aren't really copyrightable in the truest sense, but any individuals creative work should be respected. Doesn't matter whether it's a song or poem or a watercolor, someone's put a lot of effort and pride into it and wants it the way they want it. The H2H area is where a designer openly asks for suggestions.

I don't think Troll meant any harm, but a little bit more thought next time is in order.

Dave

[Troll]

About 6, 8 months ago, I can not remember, I posted a thread that I made changes to the "The Long Shot" scenario, and if anyone was interested in the files to email me. I had a good response and sent out the files. After a few days the requests stopped and that was the end of it and not a single word was said about it. I didn't change the designers name nor try to take credit for the original design.

So if there are "Unwritten Rules" they should be addressed immediately by the club officers. Not only that you should have addressed all of your concerns directly to me and tried to work them out, and if that didn't work, have the club officers make the decision, or call for a democratic vote, instead of making this a public issue and as if I was trying to take something from you.

I did not change the names of the files because that was not my intention.

I did not put my name on the files as the designer.

I know that the same file names can cause a conflict.

I did not up load the files because that was not my intention.

I never said I did not like the scenario. If I didn't like the scenario, I would not be playing it for the 3rd time. So please DO NOT put words in my mouth.

I also know your zone reasoning, for the naval guns not being on ships, your reasoning is your reasoning, and my reasoning is my reasoning. Ships with naval guns MOVE and especially when they are being fired at. To make matters even worse, you gave the naval guns with a defence factor of 0000000000000000000000000000, which means all a German had to do was throw a rock at a battle ship, and it would sink??????? What kind of reasoning is that?

All the German player has to do is take arty pot shots until the entire Allied Navy is destroyed, and they cant even fight back.

You have the naval guns zoning a 250m hex which means they are dead in the water with the anchor down. I am sure that they had a zone larger than 250m?

You could have at least put them on ships and added some water in place of the island terrain so they could still move but still be land locked to a realistic real zone of control.

And if you didn't want to do that, you could have a least given them a defence factor and put them in a improved position or better yet, a trench.

For your information, no Allied ship was sunk by a mortar round or artillery round. The majority of the damage to the ships were due to relentless Axis air attacks and mines. And lastly it was the Allied Naval and air power which prevented the Salerno landings from being a complete disaster, but in this scenario which you designed, the Allies have no Naval forces left at the end of the game because some German used his sling shot.

I am not trying to steal something from you. I am not trying to replace your scenario in the Blitz.

If you would have just waited for my reply to your email and discussed this matter like adults, I would have told you I would never offer another altered scenario of yours to anyone again, but you wanted to take your ball and bat and go home. Well that's your decision. I really do not care.

I have more important real life issues and health issues to worry about than responding to a childish tantrum post.

And as I stated earlier in this post, if altering a scenario is frowned upon then some one should have said something 8 months ago.

Joe

[Herr Straße Laufer]

1)So if there are "Unwritten Rules" they should be addressed immediately by the club officers. Not only that you should have addressed all of your concerns directly to me and tried to work them out, and if that didn't work, have the club officers make the decision, or call for a democratic vote, instead of making this a public issue and as if I was trying to take something from you.

2)I did not change the names of the files because that was not my intention.

3)I did not put my name on the files as the designer.

4)I know that the same file names can cause a conflict.

5)I did not up load the files because that was not my intention.

6)I never said I did not like the scenario. If I didn't like the scenario, I would not be playing it for the 3rd time. So please DO NOT put words in my mouth.

7)I am not trying to steal something from you. I am not trying to replace your scenario in the Blitz.

8)If you would have just waited for my reply to your email and discussed this matter like adults, I would have told you I would never offer another altered scenario of yours to anyone again, but you wanted to take your ball and bat and go home. Well that's your decision. I really do not care.

9)I have more important real life issues and health issues to worry about than responding to a childish tantrum post.

10)And as I stated earlier in this post, if altering a scenario is frowned upon then some one should have said something 8 months ago.

1) You cannot expect the club officers to be on top of everything? And, yes, there were "unwritten" and written guides discussed on the forums, regarding the modification of existing scenarios, that has been discussed for longer than 8 months (and you may have not been on top of them).

2), 3), 4) Any modded files should have a name change, even if it is the existing scenario, with a "version" indicator or in the title. Too many "versions" can cause conflict both with the scenario size modifier and the ability to play the scenario between differing versions? Not to mention the effect upon ladder stats.

5), 7) What was to prevent someone from uploading your scenario, thinking they were doing you a favor? Since it does not have a different file name it would have erased the original and effectively changed the entire data in the scenario dBASE.

6) Kind of you, while also being condescending.

8), 9) Now who is being childish? You responded publically?

10) It's not frowned upon unless it is deceptive by nature? When you alter any custom scenario, of an active designer, you should contact that designer first. Unless you change the file name and note the changes in the description, while also putting your name on the "new" scenario. It seemed the appropriate "common sense" thing to do.

Just some thoughts. :chin:



HSL

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Hello All,

@Troll: You are so far out of line on this one. You took another man's scenario work without permission and changed it. Clubs rules or no, it is just plain wrong. I don't care why you did it, it is wrong.

@VonEarlman: I would ask that you reconsider your decision. You punish everyone for the transgressions of one. I understand your anger and if I could design a scenario I would be pissed right now too. Don't deny others the opportunity to enjoy your work.

@HSL: Spot on with the comments.

@The moderators and club officers: Time to add altering another's scenario without permission is against club rules and is a banable offense.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Huib Versloot]

I don't think Troll meant any harm so let's not execute him for this.

"The Long Shot" is a scn by Von Niemack right? He is not longer active in any way in CS, therefore it was less sensitive at the time and nobody thought anything of it.

My opinion is that it is best not to touch anyone's scns. You can give a designer a suggestion for change, or if the battle is particularly interesting there is always the possibility to make your own version of the battle and make map, org and scn from scratch. It is the most rewarding way too.

@VE please keep your scn files available to the public.

Huib