New Player PzC Questions

**Mr Grumpy** · (This post was last modified: 05-05-2010, 05:10 AM by Mr Grumpy.)

(05-05-2010, 04:34 AM)Ubercat Wrote:
(05-05-2010, 03:47 AM)Foul. Wrote:
(05-05-2010, 01:31 AM)Ubercat Wrote: I'm in the middle of a hotseat game against myself in the Drive Over the Dnepr (H2H) scenario of Smolensk '41. I read somewhere, probably in regards to Volcano alt scenarios, that some units are given hard attack values with 0 range, which means that these numbers only work during an assault, and only while using the alt assaults optional rule. (If I have that right)

The H2H scenarios are strongly urged to be used only with the pre-determined OR's, but the German side has many PGr battalions with hard attack values of 0 range. Since I'm playing with the H2H set OR's, these HA values serve no purpose that I can see.

Should I be playing with the alt assault rule on? Do the units not fit the scenario? Or am I just overlooking a use for these HA values?
Ubercat,
This version of Drive Over the Dnepr scenario is not one of Volcano's scenarios (it is actually a Mod of mine ;)), all of Ed's scenarios have _alt on the end of the filenames and in the titles to avoid confusion, if you read the word doc that comes in the zip file for this scenario it lists the Opt rules to use as Artillery Set Up, Recon Spotting, Optional Surrender, Quality Fatigue Modifier, Night Fatigue and Programmed Weather.

So the infantry units will be using their assault values for assaults on hard units as the alt assault rule in not selected, however you are correct to say that if this had been a _alt scenario then yes you would have selected the alt assault rule and the infantry would be using their hard attack values of 0.

I do understand that the whole Opt rule feature can be very confusing and Brian & myself work hard at this ladder to try to clarify which rules you should use.

I hope that clears that up for you.

Thanks for getting back so soon. I assume that the HA for these units serves no purpose, then? If that's the case, then I'm also assuming that the units were drawn from a general, overall OOB, rather than custom made for the scenario (stat-wise).

Yes if you are playing with the alt assault rule OFF and a infantry unit has a hard attack value of 4/0 and a assault value of 16 then that indicates that the hard attack value cannot be used in direct fire (range of 0) and an assault on a hard units would use the 16 assault value, so in effect the 4 is not used.

Of course in the alt assault rule is ON, then again you cannot direct fire (range of 0) but when you assault the hard attack value of 4 is used.

Also with the alt assault rule ON and the hex being assaulted contains both soft and hard units then the engine uses a proportion of the HA value of 4 and the assault value of 16 in the same proportion as the numbers of hard and soft units in the hex being assaulted, in that case you will not know exactly the assault value being used unless you are great with maths.

Yes there is an overall OOB which 99% of scenarios use, but it is possible that certain scenarios have their own OOB to reflect specific values for that situation.

Dog Soldier · 05-05-2010, 08:34 AM,

(05-05-2010, 04:54 AM)Foul. Wrote: Also with the alt assault rule ON and the hex being assaulted contains both soft and hard units then the engine uses a proportion of the HA value of 4 and the assault value of 16 in the same proportion as the numbers of hard and soft units in the hex being assaulted, in that case you will not know exactly the assault value being used unless you are great with maths.

Bold Italics added for emphasis.

The FOW will need to be turned off to even do the math. With FOW on, you can still get an idea what is going on by turning off the On Map Results option in the menu. That will save considerable number crunching.

Dog Soldier

Ubercat · 05-05-2010, 11:16 AM,

Thanks for the answers, guys. I have another question, regarding Stalingrad '42. This is one of the top 3 next PzC titles I have lined up to grab. (Though I may take a detour through SB: Advance of the Reich) I read somewhere that PzC doesn't model urban combat very well. I was wondering how the urban combat for Stalingrad the city plays out. Is it fairly historical?

Also regarding Stalingrad: Is the city able to hold (in stacking limits) as many units of the 6th Army as it did historically? I imagine that the unit density is extreme in the city fighting!

Dog Soldier · 05-05-2010, 01:26 PM,

(05-05-2010, 11:16 AM)Ubercat Wrote: [SNIP] I read somewhere that PzC doesn't model urban combat very well. I was wondering how the urban combat for Stalingrad the city plays out. Is it fairly historical?

It is not an issue of the game engine modeling urban combat. It is the scale. With 1 km per hex, the tiny gains and losses of ground in the city during the time of CG will not be apparent. The fighting in the city will seem to be a bloody, but useless waste of resources compared to the large sweeps enacted on the steppes to the west of Stalingrad. I would say that is historical, if uninteresting for many.

Dog Soldier

James Ward · 05-05-2010, 09:55 PM,

(05-05-2010, 11:16 AM)Ubercat Wrote: Thanks for the answers, guys. I have another question, regarding Stalingrad '42. This is one of the top 3 next PzC titles I have lined up to grab. (Though I may take a detour through SB: Advance of the Reich) I read somewhere that PzC doesn't model urban combat very well. I was wondering how the urban combat for Stalingrad the city plays out. Is it fairly historical?

Also regarding Stalingrad: Is the city able to hold (in stacking limits) as many units of the 6th Army as it did historically? I imagine that the unit density is extreme in the city fighting!

If you judge the model by how difficult it is to take a hex in Stalingrad city I'd say it does a fine job of modeling it! :)

Ubercat · 05-14-2010, 09:19 PM,

More questions..

Is there a shortcut key for the save movement command? There isn't one in the list at the back of the book and it's an incredible time sink having to go through the menu bar for every single unit that is approaching the front.

I played an alt scenario last night in which my Germans had 2 Nebelwerfer units that looked like mortars. I couldn't fire with them no matter how close they were to the enemy because they had no spotters. On closer examination they appeared to be Korps level assets. How do I spot for them? Surely not by sending their Korps HQ into danger to spot the enemy! Do I need to explicitly attach them to divisions for them to be useful?

Thanks!

p.s.

James Ward · 05-14-2010, 09:57 PM,

(05-14-2010, 09:19 PM)Ubercat Wrote: I played an alt scenario last night in which my Germans had 2 Nebelwerfer units that looked like mortars. I couldn't fire with them no matter how close they were to the enemy because they had no spotters. On closer examination they appeared to be Korps level assets. How do I spot for them? Surely not by sending their Korps HQ into danger to spot the enemy! Do I need to explicitly attach them to divisions for them to be useful?

Thanks!

p.s.

Under the view menu you can choose highlight then indirect spotters. This will highlight all the units that can spot for a particular unit.

**Mr Grumpy** · 05-14-2010, 10:33 PM,

(05-14-2010, 09:19 PM)Ubercat Wrote: More questions..

Is there a shortcut key for the save movement command? There isn't one in the list at the back of the book and it's an incredible time sink having to go through the menu bar for every single unit that is approaching the front.

I don't know about a shortcut key, but the button on the toolbar is the best way to use this feature, combined with the "reachable hex's" toolbar button makes it very easy to see how far a unit can move and either stay in T mode or deploy.

Remember the save movement feature will not allow you to move a unit beyond 2/3 of its movement allowence.

Ubercat · 05-14-2010, 10:37 PM,

(05-14-2010, 10:33 PM)Foul. Wrote:
(05-14-2010, 09:19 PM)Ubercat Wrote: More questions..

Is there a shortcut key for the save movement command? There isn't one in the list at the back of the book and it's an incredible time sink having to go through the menu bar for every single unit that is approaching the front.

I don't know about a shortcut key, but the button on the toolbar is the best way to use this feature, combined with the "reachable hex's" toolbar button makes it very easy to see how far a unit can move and either stay in T mode or deploy.

Remember the save movement feature will not allow you to move a unit beyond 2/3 of its movement allowence.

I didn't know that there was a toolbar button for save movement. I'll look for it. Thank you.

Gasbag · 05-15-2010, 04:36 AM,

(05-14-2010, 09:57 PM)James Ward Wrote:
(05-14-2010, 09:19 PM)Ubercat Wrote: I played an alt scenario last night in which my Germans had 2 Nebelwerfer units that looked like mortars. I couldn't fire with them no matter how close they were to the enemy because they had no spotters. On closer examination they appeared to be Korps level assets. How do I spot for them? Surely not by sending their Korps HQ into danger to spot the enemy! Do I need to explicitly attach them to divisions for them to be useful?

Thanks!

p.s.

Under the view menu you can choose highlight then indirect spotters. This will highlight all the units that can spot for a particular unit.

Just wanted to add that pressing the W key on the keyboard will highlight all the units capable of acting as indirect spotters when you select any artillery unit.