reputation

[Kool Kat]

Dave, What do you mean by juvenile fashion, Is it because people offered a different view from the one you believed in, or was it because someone disagreed with another post and cried foul ??? Its strange that the guy wielding the ban sword decided to call some of us juvenile !!! The board is losing intetest because people all are afraid to bring up anything other than generic topics. I can count the number of good threads on here in the last 3 months on one hand . Just because people disagree doesn't mean bad discussions come from it.

Chuck

Hi Chuck:

Why can't moderators have and express opinions on the forums? :chin:

Others have that "right" and exercise it on a regular basis? :chin:

Somehow I'm missing this "suppressive" and "regressive" environment that some folks keep using to describe these forums.

This specific thread is an example of "free expression"... and is actually evolving into a rather interesting... and maybe enlightening "conversation?"

I have no "fear" of bringing up topics that are not "generic." My threads "So you want quality CS H2H scenarios?" and "An Open Letter to Scenario Designers" generated very robust and sometimes heated posts... nobody was banned? Everyone who wanted to weigh in on them did? They were enlightening? Some agreed with my opinions... others did not? We had an exchange of different ideas?

Currently, we have a good thread on "Combined Unit Fire" that has been very interesting... "Website issues" that led to a sticky re-direct and clarification on bug reporting...

So my question to you and others who are commenting on the lack of "good threads" - what have you contributed in the way of "good threads" lately?

IMO, it is way too easy to keep pointing fingers at what is "wrong" with the forums - either from a "mechanics" or "content" standpoint. Are things "perfect" here?... no. Are there areas that can be improved?... yes.

Unfortunately, there are folks who will always see the "glass as half empty" and tend to have negative views that continually get "expressed" in their postings. That's all well and good... but if the sum contributions from these folks are simply criticism... and there are never any constructive suggestions for improvement or contributions of their own... then the hypocritical behavior gets old? :chin:

I guess for me, I see these constant criticisms as circular arguments... we keep going around and around on a track... getting no where fast? :chin: I get weary of these kinds of postings... and IMO we should expect much more constructive and enlightening posts from these individuals.

I really like the following quote... it sums up my opinion in a concise way:

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

[Scud]

Dave, What do you mean by juvenile fashion, Is it because people offered a different view from the one you believed in, or was it because someone disagreed with another post and cried foul ??? Its strange that the guy wielding the ban sword decided to call some of us juvenile !!! The board is losing intetest because people all are afraid to bring up anything other than generic topics. I can count the number of good threads on here in the last 3 months on one hand . Just because people disagree doesn't mean bad discussions come from it.

Chuck

Uh, acually none of the above, Chuck. What I was referring to had nothing to do with me, but with events that transpired between other members of the club back in the last quarter of 2009. Think you should reread what I said. I certainly apologize to you, as well, if I wasn't too clear about that; I didn't mean to imply that anyone in the current post was behaving that way. So... sorry.

I disagree with your assessment of less than 5 good threads in the last three months, but you're entitled to your opinion. What do you think would make for an interesting thread? If you're really scared of being banned for something, send me an email first and ask. Here's some food for thought, though, banning means from posting, not from visiting the site. Not posting for fear of banning amounts to sort of the same thing doesn't it? So why all the worries? I also disagree with a blanket assumption that people aren't participating in the forum, for any reason. Frankly, I'm not seeing it. It contiunues to be the second most popular forum on the Blitz. Sure, there's probably a handful, but at this point I don't see what else I could do to entice them to come back. Ball's kind of in their court now.

As for my disagreeing with people, or them with me, happens all the time. I don't believe I've ever done or said anything on this site that implies punishment directed at anyone who disagrees with me. If I'm wrong about that, show me. If fact, when it come to criticism directed at me, I think I've been pretty tolerant. It's only when everyone starts "flaming" that I have to step in and say something, that's the job that I was asked to perform.

Now, as for the "new" rules. Which ones do you feel should be removed? Will it bring members back if I allow flaming to return? Will everyone start enjoying the site more if we allow cursing and name calling? Peter, you're remark about some people taking it on the chin better than some others here, what the heck, bud? Why does everything you say have to end up in a dig? Is that what you want the forums to return to. Think about it, reread your posts. Maybe you don't see it, but Peter it's constant. I don't mind when you direct it at me, but what am I supposed to do when I get complaints about you from other members, ignore them cause it's you and you're somehow entitled? That's not right. As for ass-kissing? Mine? WHEN??? Certainly not in this thread. Right? Or in the personal correspondence we've had. Jeez, unless ass kissing means something else in Great Britain, I kinda recall you're ripping into me a bit. You could have at least lit a few candles and called me Darling. Killed the forum? For whom, you? Heavy handedness? For being asked to keep things civil?

You are entitled to your opinions, so please don't let me stop you and I mean that. I just think a lot of the time your opinions are self-serving and/or self-centered. Maybe that's just me, I don't know, so take it with a grain of salt.

Dave

[Glint]

''I have no "fear" of bringing up topics that are not "generic." My threads "So you want quality CS H2H scenarios?" and "An Open Letter to Scenario Designers" generated very robust and sometimes heated posts... nobody was banned?'' quote Mr KK.

Sorry to jump in again Mike, this is what I referred to in the thread regarding private pms and e-mails that some aren't privy too.
I entered that debate of yours and you welcomed my contribution, then I get a pm from a mod that ' I'm locking horns with someone again?' once someone else joined in the debate.

I received a ban in the past, that was lifted eventually, hence the 'fear' element in further posts. I agree wholeheartedly with Chuck that the dealings regarding some in the past, has stifled many from contributing in the forum.
As I said earlier, let's have free debate by all means, mods only need jump in when serious problems are encountered, one shouldn't feel that the 'sword of damacles' is hanging over our head because we are being negative?

Just thought I'd enlighten you to the facts buddy.
regards
Peter

---

Hey Dave, read my previous post, then tell me I have nothing to fear. Maybe you were oblivious to the pm I received? I thought the banning meant matter dealt with?
Seems some are still being watched over in their further posts?
Maybe some see the 'sword of Damocles' hanging above them? Do you guys ever wonder, maybe that is why guys come over as negative, or having digs, - they are feeling alienated from commenting on anything and when they do enter a conversation with different views, they shy away again.

I welcome your openness in allowing this discussion Dave, my comments about kissing ass was not a reference to you, it was an observation from others' posts.

I think, regarding the new rules, perhaps discussion would be better in the public forum rather than pms reporting complaints about a member, when those people don't have the guts to make the comments here in public?
Many members don't even know about the goings on behind the scenes and an unfair conclusion can be reached that way, regarding the forum.

We are both man enough to discuss this in open Dave, perhaps more should do so, mods only need to jump in when things get really out of hand?

As for your interpretation of my posts Dave, they are my opinions on a subject, not digs. I've had enough digs aimed at me in the past and if I didn't like it, I'd respond, but then that ended up with me getting banned!

Bottom line Dave, yeah some of us are being driven away with the new rules.
regards
Peter

[Chuck10mtn]

Dave,
It was the flaming that got people to log in and look to see what we ( the CS ) was arguing about. Nothing sucks the fun out of good debate like a I can ban you for a post I don't like !!! And all the people running to you saying my feeling were hurt !!! do something. People on here should have a thick skin not everybody will agree with them, have your proof and state it.

A quick glance at 100 days ago show Dec 11 - 16, 5805 views on 12 various topics and 152 replies. The presant page shows 2257 views and 108 replies, on the 12 topics, with this and web site issues being most popular

This is from our topic hey scud page 2 started on Dec 31 this was in your response

" That being said, and as a former moderator, MrRR, can attest to, I don't have it within my power to arbitrarily ban anyone. I MUST go through the senior officers. I state my request and give my reasons. Any site officer can chime in and give thier feedback. In the end though, yes, so far senior managers have agreed with my assessment or have disagreed, but said it's my call. My call wasn't always for a ban either, but to give someone another chance. By the way, the really bad posts aren't deleted, they're just rendered invisible to the general public."

Mandatory: Those who wish to post will do so in a respectful, nonconfrontational manner. Any violation will be met with a minimum 30 day suspension from posting.

Mandatory: There is to be no sarcastic, aggressive or argumentative posting of any kind. Debate, yes, discuss, yes, but if you cross the line, violators will be met with a minimum 30 day suspension from posting.

I believe these are the new rules you came up with after the end of year battle ??? So I guess that it must be somebody else who would do the banning then !!! I've never seen anything on here that I thought any Mod needed to step in on !!! cussing no, grafic crude sexual remarks no, but people we are for the most parts adults here, and in my opinion we've taken the fun out, for some who want to cry he made me mad and I can't defend myself against it so help me !!!


Kat,
He entitled to any opinion he wants but, The problem with him saying or using the word juvenile is that it could of caused a flaming up. I say he said that about me, so in return I say to him he's a know it nothing fool who is talking out his a** and poof it goes off. Yes that is how they got started before, someone getting in a huff and then when the heat was on they ran to the Mods and cried foul.

[Scud]

Bottom line Dave, yeah some of us are being driven away with the new rules.

Well maybe, but I think the numbers alluded to have been exagerated.

As to the PM you received, it wasn't from me and I learned of it after the fact. I would have disagreed had I been asked, I didn't think what you said required moderating. In our defense, though, maybe you're not the only one who's nervous? None of us want to see a return of the last few months of 2009 and I think we can all agree to that.

PMs are a courtesy, nothing more nothing less. Doesn't take much guts to to make a comment on a web forum either, you'll have to admit.

Peter, what's past is past. I can't undo stuff, I can only try to make things better moving forward and I can't do it alone or if guys (even if it's just a few) would rather tear things down rather than build them up. If you really feel that the CS forum has gone downhill then help me improve it. Start some threads you think will be topical and interesting. Not sure what was meant by "generic", but if there's something more on-point, start one up.

Chuck, I note your points. I still think you might be jumping to conclusions, but who knows, maybe everyone was coming to our forum to watch the in-fighting? Personally, I think that's not something CS members should be too proud of. Your previous post mentioned everyone not coming here anymore due to the "generic" nature of the threads, which I think is of greater concern. I can't do much about that, but you can. How many times do I have to say that?

The quote from the "Hey Scud" post was correct. I can't ban any member without consent from the senior officers. The senior officers, however, allowed me to impose stiffer rules in the hopes that the CS forum could be calmed down a bit. We were considered a laughing stock (which I take offense to). I think it's gone well and I disagree that the majority of CS members enjoy name calling and personal attacks. I disagree too, that those are the features that make for a good or even heated debate, Dan Ackroyd vs. Jane Curtain (you miserable slut) aside. Nor do I feel they are the things our forum should aspire to. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think so.

So, how about we drop this? Agree to disagree? Chuck, I await your thread. Make it a good one. Extreme assault? Variable visibilty? Navies? I'm game. No swearing though.

Dave

[Chuck10mtn]

''I have no "fear" of bringing up topics that are not "generic." My threads "So you want quality CS H2H scenarios?" and "An Open Letter to Scenario Designers" generated very robust and sometimes heated posts... nobody was banned?'' quote Mr KK.

Sorry to jump in again Mike, this is what I referred to in the thread regarding private pms and e-mails that some aren't privy too.
I entered that debate of yours and you welcomed my contribution, then I get a pm from a mod that ' I'm locking horns with someone again?' once someone else joined in the debate.

I received a ban in the past, that was lifted eventually, hence the 'fear' element in further posts. I agree wholeheartedly with Chuck that the dealings regarding some in the past, has stifled many from contributing in the forum.
As I said earlier, let's have free debate by all means, mods only need jump in when serious problems are encountered, one shouldn't feel that the 'sword of damacles' is hanging over our head because we are being negative?

Just thought I'd enlighten you to the facts buddy.
regards
Peter

---

Hey Dave, read my previous post, then tell me I have nothing to fear. Maybe you were oblivious to the pm I received? I thought the banning meant matter dealt with?
Seems some are still being watched over in their further posts?
Maybe some see the 'sword of Damocles' hanging above them? Do you guys ever wonder, maybe that is why guys come over as negative, or having digs, - they are feeling alienated from commenting on anything and when they do enter a conversation with different views, they shy away again.

I welcome your openness in allowing this discussion Dave, my comments about kissing ass was not a reference to you, it was an observation from others' posts.

I think, regarding the new rules, perhaps discussion would be better in the public forum rather than pms reporting complaints about a member, when those people don't have the guts to make the comments here in public?
Many members don't even know about the goings on behind the scenes and an unfair conclusion can be reached that way, regarding the forum.

We are both man enough to discuss this in open Dave, perhaps more should do so, mods only need to jump in when things get really out of hand?

As for your interpretation of my posts Dave, they are my opinions on a subject, not digs. I've had enough digs aimed at me in the past and if I didn't like it, I'd respond, but then that ended up with me getting banned!

Bottom line Dave, yeah some of us are being driven away with the new rules.
regards
Peter

Hi Peter,
Your post is right on, nobody disagree or watch out !!!

Dave, I thought the numbers I put in my last thread spoke that has happened,
A quick glance at 100 days ago show Dec 11 - 16, 5805 views on 12 various topics and 152 replies. The presant page shows 2257 views and 108 replies, on the 12 topics, with this and web site issues being most popular

The change has chased people away I hope that Peter and I aren't the only ones to notice this.

Ok Dave lets drop this its becoming a thread that disagreement is starting up, we don;t want that on the site !!! geez that sound familar !!! Sorry Dave your right things are perfect, don't want people to see us agueing.

[Kool Kat]

Kat,
He entitled to any opinion he wants but, The problem with him saying or using the word juvenile is that it could of caused a flaming up. I say he said that about me, so in return I say to him he's a know it nothing fool who is talking out his a** and poof it goes off. Yes that is how they got started before, someone getting in a huff and then when the heat was on they ran to the Mods and cried foul.

IMO, juvenile is not an inflamatory word... but your hypothetical response would be considered inflamatory and you would be subject to a ban. Not sure why that is difficult to interpret?

Hence the reason for forum rules and the need to practice some "degree" of civility in our postings? :chin:

[Glint]

'Juvenile' is a derogatory word, in the way it was used and, as such, obviously could have caused a flaming up. Mike, I think your interpretation of what Chuck said is not actually what Chuck is trying to say?

Anyway Dave, thanks for letting us have our say this time, on the issue. I understand that you weren't aware of the pm I received and am pleased to see that you would have disagreed with it had you known. My purpose in referring to it was to highlight to members that, what they see on the forum, isn't necessarily the full picture.

Chuck - I think we have had our say now and perhaps it's food for thought for the mods, maybe not, but at least it's been aired and I personally have said my piece.
Perhaps some who complain to the mods about 'negative-minded' posts have a better understanding of why some are that way?
regards
Peter

[Kool Kat]

Peter, what's past is past. I can't undo stuff, I can only try to make things better moving forward and I can't do it alone or if guys (even if it's just a few) would rather tear things down rather than build them up. If you really feel that the CS forum has gone downhill then help me improve it. Start some threads you think will be topical and interesting. Not sure what was meant by "generic", but if there's something more on-point, start one up.

Chuck, I note your points. I still think you might be jumping to conclusions, but who knows, maybe everyone was coming to our forum to watch the in-fighting? Personally, I think that's not something CS members should be too proud of. Your previous post mentioned everyone not coming here anymore due to the "generic" nature of the threads, which I think is of greater concern. I can't do much about that, but you can. How many times do I have to say that?

Gents:

This is our forum... and also our responsibility to work to make improvements to it.

IMO, I try to work toward those efforts... starting "non-generic" threads... making suggestions on raising the awareness on how to report "bugs" that led to some improvements on this forum... being open-minded on the "new" Blitz... taking time to learn about the new features and functionality... and also getting my opinions and ideas aired that some agree with and others do not? :chin:

So my question to Chuck, (and others?) who are commenting on the lack of "good threads" - what have you contributed in the way of "good threads" lately?

IMO, I think that we "hear" plenty from the handful of folks who keep pointing fingers at what is "wrong" with the forums - either from a "mechanics" or "content" standpoint. And then start bitching and whining about "I'm not being heard" or my post is not "valid" because others don't agree with them?

So... to Chuck (and others?)... How about starting some non-generic threads on topics of interest? Look for ways to improve things here and make constructive suggestions.

IMO, it's time for some folks to show they are serious about wanting to improve the forums... cause it has been somewhat lacking of late? :chin:

[Chuck10mtn]

'Juvenile' is a derogatory word, in the way it was used and, as such, obviously could have caused a flaming up. Mike, I think your interpretation of what Chuck said is not actually what Chuck is trying to say?

Anyway Dave, thanks for letting us have our say this time, on the issue. I understand that you weren't aware of the pm I received and am pleased to see that you would have disagreed with it had you known. My purpose in referring to it was to highlight to members that, what they see on the forum, isn't necessarily the full picture.

Chuck - I think we have had our say now and perhaps it's food for thought for the mods, maybe not, but at least it's been aired and I personally have said my piece.
Perhaps some who complain to the mods about 'negative-minded' posts have a better understanding of why some are that way?
regards
Peter

Hi Peter,
I like you have said what I can to try and help !!! The few who cried the loudest have gotten their way !!!