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Bridge question
08-31-2009, 08:36 AM,
#11
RE: Bridge question
I don't think a CS ford can be destroyed, Pat...it is a natural topographic feature that is a permanent part of the map as designed . Note that in real life a ford might well be much more than a few rocks in the river.
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08-31-2009, 09:09 AM,
#12
RE: Bridge question
Thank you Rod,

I suppose the rocks are just a symbol of a ford and could actually be a rather large accumulation of sediment and bedrock. Perhaps even a natural dam/spillway of such mass that an engineering platoon might not have the equipment to cause it much damage.

I lost a scenario a month or so ago where my opponent destroyed a bridge to an almost unprotected but valuable VP and the ford was so far to my North that I did not have time enough to to use it.

I have made other mistakes by moving units to areas they could not move through; misreading the map.

Thank you once again for a definitive answer to my question.

Pat

Give a man fire and he'll be warm for a day.
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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08-31-2009, 09:17 AM,
#13
RE: Bridge question
Montana Grizz Wrote:I have made other mistakes by moving units to areas they could not move through; misreading the map.

Pat

The Australian Army, (and others I have no doubt) consider the most dangerous thing on the battlefield to be Second Lieutenant with a map and compass!!
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08-31-2009, 09:39 AM,
#14
RE: Bridge question
:laughing: :P :grin2:


:boom1:

Pat

Give a man fire and he'll be warm for a day.
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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08-31-2009, 10:22 AM,
#15
RE: Bridge question
Montana Grizz Wrote:So Umbro, do you then believe that a ford cannot be destroyed?

Engineers can build a bridge, but they can't remove a few rocks across a river?

While I am on the subject, does an engineer unit have to have a special icon to lay a mine?

Thank you for your observations sir,

Pat

Page 63

5.18 Minefields & Engineers

A convenient way of slowing down or diverting an enemy attack is with minefields. Minefields are pre-set in a scenario and can only be removed by an Engineer (referred to by the game program as a “Mine-Clearing Unit”). Each non-Engineer unit that enters a minefield hex automatically triggers a mine attack vs. that unit, whereas a Mine- Clearing Unit can enter a minefield without being attacked (see Clearing Minefields and Blocks, below).The strength of a minefield attack is determined by the “level” of the minefield. A “1” minefield attacks on the 1:1 row of the Combat Results Table, a “2” minefield attacks on the 2:1 row, and a “3” minefield attacks on the 3:1 row. To view the strength of a minefield hex, switch to the “2D Normal View” map (Hot Key 4), or turn on the Unit List (Hot Key U) and click in (Hot Spot) the minefield hex. The strength of the minefield is displayed in the Unit List along the right side of the interface.
Engineers Laying Smoke – Engineer infantry have the unique ability to “lay smoke” in their own hex. To do this, select the Engineer and then, while pressing the Alt key, fire into the same hex as the Engineer and smoke will appear. Smoke points are required to use this feature. You can see how much smoke you have in any given scenario by pressing the U Hot Key.

*The icon shows a mine engineer.*

Page 64

5.18.1 Building Bridges

An Undisrupted, unfatigued, fully-supplied Engineer unit may attempt to build a light bridge across a hexside gully, stream, or minor river. An Engineer unit capable of damaging walls and bridges can blow up the newly created bridge (see 5.19)
An Undisrupted, unfatigued fully-supplied regular Engineer unit may attempt to build a light bridge (a footbridge) across a hexside stream or river with a 20% chance of success. The procedure is similar to that used for damaging walls or blowing up bridges. In the unit menu, select Build Light Bridge, select the direction for the bridging attempt, and press Enter. The bridging attempt will have a 20% chance of success. If successful, the Engineer unit will assume an out-of-ammo status and remain so until resupplied. The attempt costs 100 Action Points. The whole process assumes that the unit is attempting to construct a light foot bridge using locally-obtained materials.
An Undisrupted, unfatigued fully-supplied bridging Engineer unit may attempt to build a vehicle bridge across a hexside stream or river with a 20% chance of success. The procedure is similar to that used for damaging walls or blowing up bridges. In the unit menu, select Lay Vehicle Bridge, select the direction for the bridging attempt, and press Enter. If a vehicle bridge unit, or light modern MTU or AVLB is making the attempt, there is a 60% chance of success. If successful, the Engineer unit will assume a low on ammo status and remain so for the remainder of the scenario. The whole process assumes that the unit is attempting to construct a medium vehicle bridge using specialized materials that the unit has with it. This means that a bridging Engineer platoon may only build one medium bridge during the course of a scenario!
Bridging Engineer units are specialists. They can only build medium vehicle bridges. They many not build light foot bridges, clear mines/obstacles, or blow up/damage walls or bridges. Any Engineer-constructed bridge can be destroyed by any Engineer unit capable of blowing up bridges. The process is identical to that used to blow up regular bridges.

5.18.2 Laying Minefields

An Undisrupted, unfatigued, fully-supplied Mine Engineer unit may attempt to lay a 1 Strength Minefield in a hex. Once the Mine Engineer has successfully laid a minefield, the unit will assume an out-of-ammo status and remain so for the remainder of the scenario. This means that the Mine Engineer units may only lay a single one level minefield per scenario, but multiple Mine Engineers can combine their efforts to produce higher-level minefields.
To lay a minefield, place the Mine Engineer in the desired hex and select Lay a Minefield from the Unit Menu. There is a 60% chance it will lay a minefield. Mine Engineer units are incapable of clearing minefields.

Page 65

5.19 Clearing Minefields and Blocks

Undisrupted Engineer units that begin its turn in a minefield or blocked hex will automatically lower the level of that minefield by one, or eliminate a Block fortification. In the Campaign Series, the only Mine-Clearing Units are Combat Engineers.
To locate Mine-Clearing Units, use the “Highlight” menu item from the “Display” pop-down menu, then select “Mine-Clearing Units.” All friendly units capable of clearing minefields will be highlighted.


Page 174

21.7 Bridging Engineers

Design considerations for training:
These units are capable of building medium bridges across a stream or minor river hexside.
These ARE NOT combat units but have some defence, so you will have to secure the area they intend to operate prior to sending them to the frontline.
Scenario design considerations:
These are specialist units and should be used in very limited quantities.
Due to their special equipment, they have a high Victory Point worth.
Regular Engineers can build light bridges, so keeping these units safe and using them strictly for medium bridges is ideal.
See the East Front ** BOOTCAMP #12 to see Bridging Engineers in action
______________________
Pat, I think that this is pretty much all the manual says concerning engineers.
I agree with Umbro. And, with KKR.
You can build a light bridge next to a ford (in the same hex). Though engineers would not be able to blow up the "ford", they should be able to blow up the light bridge.

cheers

RR
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08-31-2009, 10:36 AM,
#16
RE: Bridge question
MrRoadrunner Wrote:Page 64

5.18.1 Building Bridges

An Undisrupted, unfatigued, fully-supplied Engineer unit may attempt to build a light bridge across a hexside gully, stream, or minor river. An Engineer unit capable of damaging walls and bridges can blow up the newly created bridge (see 5.19)
An Undisrupted, unfatigued fully-supplied regular Engineer unit may attempt to build a light bridge (a footbridge) across a hexside stream or river with a 20% chance of success. The procedure is similar to that used for damaging walls or blowing up bridges. In the unit menu, select Build Light Bridge, select the direction for the bridging attempt, and press Enter. The bridging attempt will have a 20% chance of success. If successful, the Engineer unit will assume an out-of-ammo status and remain so until resupplied. The attempt costs 100 Action Points. The whole process assumes that the unit is attempting to construct a light foot bridge using locally-obtained materials.

______________________
Pat, I think that this is pretty much all the manual says concerning engineers.
I agree with Umbro. And, with KKR.
You can build a light bridge next to a ford (in the same hex). Though engineers would not be able to blow up the "ford", they should be able to blow up the light bridge.

cheers

RR

This is very interesting but seems to contradict actual gameplay. A few weeks ago I tried to build a footbridge with a regular engineer across a hex side river and rec'd the message that the unit was not capable. Hmmmm..... Anyone else been able to build one with a regular engineer??
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08-31-2009, 12:57 PM,
#17
RE: Bridge question
I've built light bridges over river hexsides with regular engineers on at least two occasions. I think I've done it with Albanian engineers and Russian (Allied) engineers.

There's only one option for building a bridge, and it specifically states you'd be building a light bridge. It wouldn't be a question of clicking on the wrong option.
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08-31-2009, 02:31 PM,
#18
RE: Bridge question
No, I was desperate for light bridges to get infantry across a hex side river. I was the Axis playing "Defending the Dyle" and my opponent had blown bridges everywhere. I ended with a minor loss because I simply couldn't get any further. I got the light bulb flash in my head to try and build bridges on a turn and I was selecting engineers all over the map and rec'd the unit not capable message.

Now that I think more about it I wonder if they all happened to be unsupplied at the time. Seems in light of your experience that must've been the case. I'll have to try it again at my earliest opportunity. Appreciate the confirmation.
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08-31-2009, 04:25 PM,
#19
RE: Bridge question
Montana Grizz Wrote:So Umbro, do you then believe that a ford cannot be destroyed?
Engineers can build a bridge, but they can't remove a few rocks across a river?
My understanding is that fords cannot be removed. My guess is that fords are supposed to represent a general high point in the river bed rather than an artificial set of stepping stones, allowing a crossing to be made much like cattle crossing rivers in the Westerns of yore, rather than Robin Hood and Little John duelling with quarterstaves on strategically placed rocks in an otherwise impassable river.

Montana Grizz Wrote:While I am on the subject, does an engineer unit have to have a special icon to lay a mine?
I do not believe so.

umbro
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08-31-2009, 06:19 PM,
#20
RE: Bridge question
XLVIII Pz. Korp Wrote:A few weeks ago I tried to build a footbridge with a regular engineer across a hex side river and rec'd the message that the unit was not capable. Hmmmm..... Anyone else been able to build one with a regular engineer??
This is a little off topic but also Hmmmm... a strange thing happened to me too. My leader who was in the same hex with my armor was eliminated by indirect fire artillery strike, despite it is written in manual that "A leader cannot be singled out as the target of an attack unless he is the only occupant of a hex". (Armor did not suffer anything.)

Strange things happen sometimes I guess ;)

Dmitriy
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