PzIV H or t34/85 which is better

[MGK(FGM)]

POS you said just pure truth :)

[Lord Bane]

I agree with POS assesment for the most part. True that the T-34/85 has a slow turret, but the Late model increases it to a fast turret. So that takes that argument out of the mix IMO because the late model quickly becomes the least rare of the two very quickly after it was introduced.

Lord Bane

[Der Kuenstler]

The first hit almost always kills a PzIV - that's why I'd rather play with T34s - at least their sloped armor bounces a few off before they die.

[PoorOldSpike]

TIMELINE of the four T-34/85 models showing dates of introduction into service

It serves as a good basic guide, I left out purchase costs because they can fluctuate over time.
Also I based this on going through the editor month by month, but in QB's I suspect exact dates might randomly vary by a month or two.
Also remember with QB's there's no guarantee the computer will allocate a tank any tungsten even if its available.

Feb 44 - T-34/85 Model 43 has the fractionally weaker L52 gun, but can still make mincemeat of medium types such as the PzIVH, but its AP-shot lacks real punching power against Tigers except at close range.

March 44 - OT-34/85 Flamethrower Tank basically a Model 43 as above, carrying a FT as well as L52 gun

May 44 - T-34/85 Model 1944 has the slightly better L55 gun but still can't hurt Tigers unless at close range

June 44 - TUNGSTEN introduced for all models, giving the tanks real Tiger-killing capability at medium and longish ranges for the first time

July 44 - T-34/85 Model 44 (late) has L55 gun and FAST TURRET (all the others turrets are slow)

[Bert Blitzkrieg]

I find the rather small ammo load-out from the T34/85 a real drawback. Okay, the T34/85 can stand its ground against a Panzer IVH from a distance, but due to its weaker optics and small amount of shells it won't be able to really use this as a tactic.

Same thing about the HE capability. With the Panzer IV you can area- fire practically through a whole game. With the T34/85 you can't. So, the bigger bang comes with a distinct drawback.

[Marshall666]

but the he-blast of the t34/85 is much higher....

[Fullhouse]

I find the rather small ammo load-out from the T34/85 a real drawback. Okay, the T34/85 can stand its ground against a Panzer IVH from a distance, but due to its weaker optics and small amount of shells it won't be able to really use this as a tactic.

Same thing about the HE capability. With the Panzer IV you can area- fire practically through a whole game. With the T34/85 you can't. So, the bigger bang comes with a distinct drawback.

This isnt true. The HE load of a T-34 is only slightly less than a Panzer IVH and averages around the high 30s to mid 40s. Given that the blast is much higher 75 v 45, the T-34 is far superior against infantry.

The flexibility given by being an excellent anti infantry platform for me makes the T-34 a far better tank than the Panzer IVH.

[Jobu88]

T-34/85, hands-down. Anything bigger than a 25mm AA gun has a decent chance to kill a Pz IV with a front shot. T-34/85 will shrug off hits up to 50mm and will often survive 75L48 hits on its front armor. If all you are comparing is a T-34 vs Pz IV in a shootout, that's one thing, but how about all the other matchups? T-34 vs a 50mm AT gun? Pz IV vs a BT-7, if the BT-7 hits it will penetrate with its 45mm.

Different strengths and weaknesses have been presented for both, but all in all I'd take the T-34 unless there's some highly specific conditions where the Pz IV would do better.

[PoorOldSpike]

TEST SHOOTOUT, PzIVH v T-34/85 Mod 44(late)

Veteran, clear summer midday.
I simply lined up 12 of each facing each other and let the shooting begin without any input from me.
Conclusion - In a straight shootout like this the figures show the IVH is best at close range, but the 34/85 is best at longer ranges.
However in an actual game two other important factors will come into play to blur the issue - the panzers smaller size making it nimbler for squeezing through gaps, and the 34/85's faster speed..
So they're almost impossible to separate, I suppose your choice depends on your personal play style.
I'll vote for the IVH because its smaller size suits my dense 'hunting pack' style, they're easier to pack together like sardines in narrow gaps..

200 metres
I ran the test 10 times and logged how many tanks each side lost each time.
Total PzIVH's lost = 93
Total 34/85's lost = 98



1000 metres
I then placed them 1000m apart and conducted another 10 tests
Total PzIVH's lost = 98
Total 34/85's lost = 81

[MGK(FGM)]

The very reason of that topic was to show that for CM tank only combat battle the best set is t34/85 versus pzIVh - similar price and 2 very good tanks.
This is my recommendation for entertaining and balanced battle