Units rarely break..observations and questions

HirooOnoda · 10-27-2007, 02:03 AM,

I was under the impression that if a unit was at "no moral" and it took casualities it was an automatic disruption. I havent' been seeing that recently now that I've been looking for it. Same with disrupted "no moral" units. I don't see them breaking much after taking casualites.

Also, I rarely see a unit break in this game engine. I think the number of broken units should increase as a side starts to lose a battle.

Comments?

Rev Rico · 10-27-2007, 03:25 AM,

I've seen plenty of units break in the games I play. Both mine and the enemy's! In one B44 CG I've actually seen a couple US Airborne units break, too.

It doesn't happen often, but I've often disrupted AND broke a unit in one player-turn.

As for the no morale units. They usually disrupt quickly, but I've also had some brave fire to actually assault successfully.

Landser34 · 10-27-2007, 03:40 AM,

Hi Hiroo I agree with you rarely see units break.I have been playing alot of Minsk lately and have found in alot of the scenarios you have to kill Germans down to the last man and the don't disrupt or even break.

Glenn Saunders · 10-27-2007, 03:55 AM,

Landser34 Wrote:Hi Hiroo I agree with you rarely see units break.I have been playing alot of Minsk lately and have found in alot of the scenarios you have to kill Germans down to the last man and the don't disrupt or even break.

....what can I say except set up a test using a BTL file and a default game scn and OOB and default fire rule. Try to duplicate whatever shot you are doing or seeing in the PBEM game.

See if you have a problem or not. If you do send us the BTL the hex where the unbreakable unit resides and we'll take alook.

I am certainly seeing unit break and there is no special code for one type of unit over another - it is a straight math that determines it.

Glenn

Baelfiin · 10-27-2007, 04:17 AM,

Unit needs to be at max fatigue to break as well doesnt it?

HirooOnoda · 10-27-2007, 04:56 AM,

Here is partially what I'm getting at: There is essentially no "mass" surrender in this engine, much like what happened to the 106th ID in the Ardennes in December of 1944.

I believe that when an army is getting its hat handed to it, the 106th or the Italians in Sicily, there should be a check for the entire unit to "break" or just be taken off the map.

Now as the system is, the 106th almost fights to the last man-didn't happen-and there is no provision for the 106th to lay down its arms.

HirooOnoda · 10-27-2007, 04:58 AM,

Also, a provision like I've mentioned would cause the Axis player, for example, to stack German units in the same hexes as Italian units. One doesn't have to do this in the game currently.

Baelfiin · 10-27-2007, 05:19 AM,

Just have the units disrupted with no retreat path, assault them a couple of times and they will vaporize fast enough. Also check out the optional surrender rule that might help some. Using your example in the Ardenne, how much time did it take from the time the Attack began till the germans had consolidated and pushed through the area? In any Bulge scenario i have played those 106th guys that are on the wrong side of the river are just VP's that havent been collected yet.

Not related to topic but when are you NATO guys going to be finished with your NGP 85 turn? :)

Scott

Dog Soldier · 10-27-2007, 05:51 AM,

Hiroo and Landser,

I do not know who you have been playing, but I rarely have a PzC game where a unit is not broken, mine or the enemy. Well, maybe except the little scenarios (<10 turns). all I can say, is if you wan to see broken German units, play me in a Minsk 44 scenario.

I am sure I can convince the digital Russians on my PC to break your Hitlerites. I just have my commissars send leaflets to all the troops before the scenario begins.

"Comrades'
Now is the time we have fought and suffered for. We will throw out of the Motherland the hated Germans and their lackeys. Insert the usual political nonsense.
Followed by
and case of vodka for every broken German unit with two days leave to drink it!

Digital soldiers, works on them every time! Better than second life digital script (Linden Dollars).

Dog Soldier