Poland 39 observations

[jonnymacbrown]

This is a great wargame.  Anybody into Monsters needs to get it. I am in day two (turn 18). 

Polish player must use the two days allotment of FULL RR movement (90) to get the scattered Polish divisions organized into some coherent fighting force. Tough to figure out Polish organization. DP = division; GO = Corps commander; BK = Kampf or Battle Group. On Sept. 3 the RR allotment is reduced to 80. So on the last turn of Sept. 2 (turn 19) get overybody into box cars that you can before the reduction takes effect. Before you complete a turn search out (in "find unit" feature) each DP, each GO and each BK. Just type in DP, GO, and BK and every one will be shown and you can see if you moved them or whatever. 

Polish reinforcements seem useless in that they come on scattered all over a huge map. The only way to get them organized is to find out the exact nominclature of every unit in a division, write them down, and then search out each individual unit and find out where it is (could be anywhere but usually eastwards). You gotta write that down (unless you have a photgraphic memory) and then find them again, board them on RR and send them to some sort of central location. IT IS A MAJOR TASK. We are all used to reinforcements coming on the board organized and ready to go. I'm in day two, the 3rd Legionaire Division is on the map but I have no idea where they are. A typical turn take me 8 hours so I just haven't had time to figure out were the 3rd is. Basically until I do, I've got to fight the battle with what's already on the board.
 
Anybody not moving should be digging in. Polish non-bridge Engineers can build bunkers. Have infantry dig trenches (especially in key objective hexes) and then insert non-bridge E units to construct BUNKERS. Know where these units are. They are in BK units and divisional. THE ODDS ARE ONLY 4% BUT IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM AT WORK YOU CAN POSSIBLY CONSTRUCT a bunker every turn or so. Polish units in an open ground fire-fight will get slaughtred.

[Liebchen]

This is a great wargame.  Anybody into Monsters needs to get it. I am in day two (turn 18). 

Polish player must use the two days allotment of FULL RR movement (90) to get the scattered Polish divisions organized into some coherent fighting force. Tough to figure out Polish organization. DP = division; GO = Corps commander; BK = Kampf or Battle Group. On Sept. 3 the RR allotment is reduced to 80. So on the last turn of Sept. 2 (turn 19) get overybody into box cars that you can before the reduction takes effect. Before you complete a turn search out (in "find unit" feature) each DP, each GO and each BK. Just type in DP, GO, and BK and every one will be shown and you can see if you moved them or whatever. 

Polish reinforcements seem useless in that they come on scattered all over a huge map. The only way to get them organized is to find out the exact nominclature of every unit in a division, write them down, and then search out each individual unit and find out where it is (could be anywhere but usually eastwards). You gotta write that down (unless you have a photgraphic memory) and then find them again, board them on RR and send them to some sort of central location. IT IS A MAJOR TASK. We are all used to reinforcements coming on the board organized and ready to go. I'm in day two, the 3rd Legionaire Division is on the map but I have no idea where they are. A typical turn take me 8 hours so I just haven't had time to figure out were the 3rd is. Basically until I do, I've got to fight the battle with what's already on the board.
 
Anybody not moving should be digging in. Polish non-bridge Engineers can build bunkers. Have infantry dig trenches (especially in key objective hexes) and then insert non-bridge E units to construct BUNKERS. Know where these units are. They are in BK units and divisional. THE ODDS ARE ONLY 4% BUT IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM AT WORK YOU CAN POSSIBLY CONSTRUCT a bunker every turn or so. Polish units in an open ground fire-fight will get slaughtred.

Indeed, this map is huge and it is, afaik, the only title so far that depicts actual mobilization. 

Playing the Poles in this campaign takes a strong constitution, as it is extremely anxiety-producing. 

[jonnymacbrown]

Indeed, this map is huge and it is, afaik, the only title so far that depicts actual mobilization. 
Playing the Poles in this campaign takes a strong constitution, as it is extremely anxiety-producing. 

The issue is playability vs. Historical accuracy. Ok so the 3rd Legionaire comes on scattered all over a HUGE map in an historically accurate mobilization. I'm playing a game. If I want to win I've got to take a FEW DAYS to figure out where the 3rd is and how to organize them into a division. Meanwhile I've got another 500,000 troops to move. How about a shift towrds playability? Bring on the 3rd a few days later centralized in someplace like Lubin? How's m'bout giving me a break and do that for me instead of making me agonize over a period of DAYS  to figure it out? 

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

There is always Highlight Organization. Just move in a general direction until you get closer, then, specific.

[LordDeadwood]

Or better yet, the OOB Dialog (ALT-Q). You can leave it open on the screen - especially nice if you have two screens! Click on an entry in the OOB and it will select that unit. Or vice-versa: select a unit and the OOB display will scroll to it. This is a must-use for large scenarios!

[jonnymacbrown]

There is always Highlight Organization.  Just move in a general direction until you get closer, then, specific.

Yes it sounds easy. The map is bigger than F 40 and F 14. Have you given it a try? 

[jonnymacbrown]

Or better yet, the OOB Dialog (ALT-Q). You can leave it open on the screen - especially nice if you have two screens! Click on an entry in the OOB and it will select that unit. Or vice-versa: select a unit and the OOB display will scroll to it. This is a must-use for large scenarios!

Alt Q is a big help thanks. Still, my problem is not finding the units although the Alt Q feature makes that a lot easier. The problem is the added work to get all this organized. The game is hard enough anyway; as Liebchen says the Polish side in this game is high anxiety wargaming. The moves take between 6-10 hours anyway. Finding far-flung individual units, getting them on boxcars, organizing them into a coherent division is just more added work that, to me, doesn't seem necessary.  

[The_General]

The bunkers are probably good advice, but I've just engaged my engineers in destroying bridges wherever possible (I learned this from Steel God during tournament play ). I think this has made my opponent's Bitzkrieg a bit more complicated. We're in turn 105 out of 158 (Sept. 11th). So far, troop losses are 339 K Poles and 107 K Axis soldiers.
Warsaw is still fighting, but will soon have to surrender. My opponent is a good player and made very few mistakes, so I'll lose in the end, but I'm still fighting for a minor loss.
I'm enjoying the game, but it takes some time to move all units.

[jonnymacbrown]

The bunkers are probably good advice, but I've just engaged my engineers in destroying bridges wherever possible (I learned this from Steel God during tournament play ). I think this has made my opponent's Bitzkrieg a bit more complicated. We're in turn 105 out of 158 (Sept. 11th). So far, troop losses are 339 K Poles and 107 K Axis soldiers.
Warsaw is still fighting, but will soon have to surrender. My opponent is a good player and made very few mistakes, so I'll lose in the end, but I'm still fighting for a minor loss.
I'm enjoying the game, but it takes some time to move all units.

Yeah the non-bridge engineers can either blow bridges or build bunkers. Bridge engineers can only build bridges although they are good at entrenching. You need lots of them too. Can't stand up to the Germans in open ground.   Still though, a bunker in a forested or town hex on a road can block a motorized/panzer division for a whole day. 

[Steel God]

I'm on turn 45 of a 3 player team game (2 Germans versus 1 Polish) and we're standing on a Draw about half way between Draw and Minor Axis Victory.  We're playing the shorter campaign that ends at the time the Russians intervened.  We started the game the day it was released and before the first patch and as a result the entire German OOB started at only 80% strength (it was corrected in the first patch).  Despite that handicap we have made good progress and believe we will win in the end barring any shocking developments.  Now granted the 2 Axis players believe the Polish player has made some mistakes that could have been avoided and improved his performance, but we do believe there are balance issues in the Campaign Games (just as there are in F40 also) that make the game unwinnable from the Allied side.  I lay the blame for that squarely at the lack of Campaign testing (not a secret, CGs don't get tested due to length, and when even attempted are restarted constantly as changes to the game are released to the play testers).  It will fall to us the player community to tweak victory levels if we want more competitive CGs.

The Polish player in the game has noted the scattered nature of the mobilization and expressed the same frustrations you have.  If you've ever played the F40 CG as the Allies you've some experience with this as some (but not the majority) of French reinforcements come on board the same way.  Now I have not contended with it yet, but my personal preference would be to leave the mobilization limitations in place as they are an historical reality resulting from the delayed mobilization orders.  They add to the Operational nature of the game I enjoy so much.  On that note, from the German perspective I will say that the distances are so vast that unlike most CGs I play, the necessity is to keep everyone in T mode unless in direct contact which makes surprises by the Poles much more painful, this too adds to the operational flavor I've found in no other PzC game yet.  

Anyway, I do believe that building bunkers in constricted territory can pay huge dividends but for obvious reasons can not be relied upon.  A Bridge destruction plan (you're welcome Alex    ) - is very important for the Poles especially along the full hex portion of the Vistula.   Many bridges in the NW are pre-WIRED and should be blown as soon as practical, and engineers should be dispatched to begin wiring the ones further east and south.  I think the most important thing for the Poles to stand a chance is jealously guard their Cavalry units and the few Motorized Brigades they have.  The Polish Army is designed to fight a war in 1920 not 1940 and can not cope with the speed of the Panzer and Motorized divisions, therefore those few mobile units can not be squandered in stand up fights against the Germans.  They must screen and delay effectively.  To the extent possible the Poles must keep the Germans in front of them, which means fighting unhistorical and pulling back as soon as possible, abandoning objectives if needs be. The victory lies in destruction of the Polish Army and the capture of Warsaw, almost everything else is secondary.