PzC Kharkov '43 Just Released

[Volcano Man]

Ok Marquo, I will bite. We all know you spent many, many hours working on your mod. We all have benefitted from your time and effort. What gets my goat is when you think 30 unique scenarios and campaigns is only good enough for a DLC. That was where the work was. There was over 12 months of pulling that all together and testing it. The OB as you rightly pointed out was Rick's work - but that was just a starting point. Essentally decisions were made around every formation. Every component was changed and validated against multiple sources before being included. To compliment Rick's research the Axis OB was very accurate in layout etc. The Soviets less so. The team I worked with spent a huge amount of time getting a lot of data together and building out the OB. We even went as far as including formations for future scenarios if we get the time.
....

And since my work was brought into this, although I don't feel it is really anyone else's business, David/Strela and I discussued the use of my oob multiple times, first when he wanted to use it as a basis for his own mod to the game, then when the mod became a future PzC game. We worked things out to where I am not concerned that any of my work on the OOB was used in this project, and what was used was with my full knowledge and support. David was very open in discussing what to me was a potentially touchy issue and kind in both giving credit for what I did and in working things out.

So any use of my material should be left out of this specific discussion, as it really is nobody else's business except mine, David's and John's.

Now Marquo, you did a lot of work on that scenario covering the 4th Battle of Kharkov and its final fall, but had to pack the Soviets in unrealistically to get them on and I think as result never really finalzied that one but it has a lot of possibilities. With the new room to the north of Kharkov it might be doable now, you want to work on it with me? :) Not sure I have time right now but it would be a fun mod to do.

Rick

IMO Kharkov '43 is every bit a new game, especially considering all the effort from across the board that went into it. That said, I can understand the sentiment, but this is the trouble with making mods. Occasionally a mod is made that touches an area of a future planned game.

However... I don't understand the rationale behind the idea that a game must have a new map for it to be considered a truly "new" and legitimate game and not a DLC. This has been mentioned several times already in this thread. I guess that same rationale means that Tobruk/El Alamein or all the MCs in Germany should have been DLC or that if I create a France '15, '16, '17, '18 then those too will not be considered true games in their own right. :conf:

The great thing about Kh43 is that it consolidates the map, which in itself took work, it adds a plethora of unique scenarios, it allows more user created scenarios to be made, AND there are future official expansion packs planned for the game in the works! It seems pretty solid as a new game to me. ;)

[von Nev]

As one of the playtesters for this game I am very comfortable in saying that this is a new game. Testing the Russian attack on Kharkov and the SS Korps trying to hold it was a fun test in itself and the AI put up a very good fight.

Regarding digital download, once the game was finished, I got an updated link from Glenn and downloaded it in about 15 minutes and was up and running in about 5 minutes after that. I play on one computer so this is ideal for me as I do not have to put in a CD.

Here is an attempt for the 100 point award to figure out a way to install this and make it mobile. Would it be possible to install the game on a pin drive and activate it and thus can play it on any other computer? I really don't know. I have a 8 GB pin drive that in can imagine I can install the game onto just like the fact that all of my HPS games are installed on an external hard drive. If one can indeed install the game on a pin drive and activate and can move it to another computer the argument that one has to play on the same computer is a moot point.

Marty

[Glenn Saunders]

If one can indeed install the game on a pin drive and activate and can move it to another computer the argument that one has to play on the same computer is a moot point.

Marty

No need to Now Marty - the game can be installed on two PCs now

[Dog Soldier]

Since the change was made by JTS to allow two PC install the issue is moot, IMHO. I was trying to address the road warrior issue. That is as Glenn said, solved.

Dog Soldier

[Gordons HQ]

How come no one is addressing what I wrote about the ownership of a wargame when you buy it and your right to use it as you see fit, subject to copyright of course.
Who can dictate where you use it in your own home and on what computer
this seems a invasion of privacy to me and smacks of big brother.
Having supported the game for a good number of years this has got me really angry. I don't even mind the digital download but then to be told I can only use it only one computer is very wrong as I see it.

Gordon

[Indragnir]

Now Marquo, you did a lot of work on that scenario covering the 4th Battle of Kharkov and its final fall, but had to pack the Soviets in unrealistically to get them on and I think as result never really finalzied that one but it has a lot of possibilities. With the new room to the north of Kharkov it might be doable now, you want to work on it with me? :) Not sure I have time right now but it would be a fun mod to do.

Rick

Operation Polkovodets Rumyantsev please! I can help if you like.

Bests
César

[Volcano Man]

How come no one is addressing what I wrote about the ownership of a wargame when you buy it and your right to use it as you see fit, subject to copyright of course.
Who can dictate where you use it in your own home and on what computer
this seems a invasion of privacy to me and smacks of big brother.
Having supported the game for a good number of years this has got me really angry. I don't even mind the digital download but then to be told I can only use it only one computer is very wrong as I see it.

Gordon

How can it be addressed? It is a statement and not a question, which was made and respected, but you are stating it again now. :conf:

In any case, no one is ignoring you but I will try to respond:

It CAN be used on two computers; it CAN be used on 100 computers -- just not *simultaneously*. That is the whole purpose of the protection scheme, to prevent mass distribution / selling of one single file. It is not to dictate where and on what you play the game as you say. Rhetorically speaking, does it have anything to do with trust? I find the whole discussion of "trust" absurd, those that believe this apparently never lock their car or house nor secure valuable items. It is easy for someone to complain about trust when they do not invest one 18th of their life expectancy designing a game.

Anyway, I don't think some really understand the issue; such is the case when some instill fear and panic in others. The reality is, the activation really plays a part is when you try to install it on a third computer, while still having it installed on two other computers simultaneously.

If someone has three or more computers that they play these games on then, well, I don't know what to say. Otherwise, if someone feels like installing / playing the game on a third computer (ie. if you buy a new computer years from now) you would simply uninstall the game on one of the other two computers that you no longer need, then install it on the new computer. Most people these days seem to keep their old hard drive when they buy a new computer, or they transfer the data to a new hard drive instead of starting from scratch, in either case none of this would apply anyway.

At this point it is understood across the net that some are adamantly against this approach, some could care less, and some support it. The only thing left to do is to speak with the pocket book.

Hopefully that helps.

[The SNAFU]

Seeing now that the game can be installed on 2 pc's at the same time goes a long way for me. The less restrictive policy addresses my primary concerns.

The PzC series is by far my favorite and I will continue to buy new releases.

[Marquo]

"Personally, I would prefer a Tiller published Moscow game than someones mod - even if just for the play testing that has been done."

Strela,

Unfortunately, as you well know, a fair number of stock official published scenarios have proven to be problematic in terms of play balance and of debatable historical accuracy - but on the bright side this has led to some extraordinary efforts on the part of amateur player hobbists to create brilliant and lovingly researched mods - this site and others are well endowed with these efforts; and it would be quite inconsiderate to demean these efforts simply because they do not carry the official HPS stamp of approval. I am sure that this is not your intent, and I know you respect these efforts as much as anyone else.

Marquo

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[quote='Ricky B' pid='334202' dateline='1291523481']
[quote='Strela' pid='334187' dateline='1291506566']
The great thing about Kh43 is that it consolidates the map, which in itself took work, it adds a plethora of unique scenarios, it allows more user created scenarios to be made, AND there are future official expansion packs planned for the game in the works! It seems pretty solid as a new game to me. ;)

Rick,

7 years ago after FSR I created, "Operation Polkovodets Rumyantsev; aka Uregan." This is the Soviet counteroffensive after Kursk to retake Kharkov. Since the top 10 or hexes are missing from the K'42 map I had to fudge a bit but it is a blast none the less. Timeline researched to the hilt, including OOB from extremely credible sources. I never uploaded it, but I guess now is a good as time as any to revisit this project. I will eventually post this for those who have K'42.

Thanks for the offer; if I buy K 43 I will try to dig out my notes and redo the full FSR campaign. As for Uregan, I am leery on stepping on anyone's toes if it one of the planned official expansion packs - as an ardent HPS supporter I do want the company to show a profit :-)

Happy Holidays,

Mark

[Gordons HQ]

Thank You VM for taking the trouble to reply I'm sorry I did not want to labour the point by stating it over again, however it looked like the issue I raised was being glossed over when a simple acknowlegement by someone would have sufficed.
The ability to have the game on two computers at the same time is fine as sometimes I travel and take the last turn with me on the laptop. I do though prefer to play the game on my desktop as I have a bigger display and feel more comfortouble there. So when not travelling I use the desktop.
I take it then if I have two installs I will not have to contact the support each time I use a different computer which was what I thought was being said. I would only have to contact them in the cases you highlight, say the HD crashed or I wished to upgrade to another new computer.
This is obviously a pain compared to the current system but I can live with that if it helps the developers keep the pirates away from copying it.

Cheers
Gordon