France '40 Gold Team Game

[Kool Kat]

There are 2 factors that are driving the 3 v 3 or greater play format.  The first is Mike Prucha's recommendation for a 3 v 3 play format.  The second is the sheer number of units per side.

The Allies command 3 French Army Groups including the BEF, the Belgian Army and the Dutch Army which totals 123+ Divisions and all manner of less than Division size attachments.  The Germans command 3 Army Groups and the OKH Reserve totaling 123+ Divisions and many less than Division size attachments.

While 2 players per side could handle these forces, it would become a cumbersome task to maneuver so many units.  I would rather play a 3 v 3 format in order to make the scenario more playable and enjoyable.

Gents: 

I believe that Mike Prucha's first recommendation was for a 2 v 2 Team Play format:

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Suggestions for Team Play

The size of campaign game lends itself well to team play. There are several ways in which commands could be divvied up between players. In a four-player game, it could perhaps make the most sense divide the commands geographically:

Player 1: German Heeresgruppe B
Player 2: German Heeresgruppe A and Heeresgruppe C
Player 3: French GA 1, 7e armée, Belgian and Dutch armies
Player 4: French GA 2 & GA 3.


__________________________

Maybe interested Team Players should look for a "less unit dense" France '40 campaign scenario to play?

Team games can be a lot of fun, but you need to strike a balance between how many units and complexity are manageable. Also, know your players and how committed they are to seeing it to conclusion.    

I am currently on Turn #93 (170 Turns) of a Smolensk '41 Campaign scenario... or else I might throw my hat into the ring here! 

I hope you guys can sort out the details and I wish you all the best! 

[Der Landser]

This is what I based my 3 v 3 player comment on:

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In a game with more than four players, a compelling way to assign Allied commands may be by nation. Liaison between the various armies was poor and during the course of the campaign disagreement arose regarding the employment of the British and Belgian armies. Assigning a different commander to the armies of France, Britain, Belgium, and the Netherlands may create some realistic tension or disagreement between the Allies. To further this, players adopt some “national objectives” for the different nations:

French and German victory conditions are as defined in the victory dialogue.

British victory conditions are as defined in the victory dialogue, but one level is subtracted for every three British divisions destroyed (for instance, an Allied minor victory in which three BEF divisions are destroyed is only a draw for British player. An Allied major victory in which the entirety of the BEF is destroyed is a major defeat for the British player). A division is considered "destroyed" if it has lost a sufficient portion of its strength that is of no practical offensive or defensive value (this is intentionally vague and is somewhat depending upon players' judgement and common sense.) Divisions evacuated through the Dunkerque exit hexes are not considered destroyed.

Dutch victory conditions:

Dutch Major Victory: Allies control 14,000 objective points in the Netherlands
Dutch Minor Victory: Allies control 10,000 objective points in the Netherlands
Dutch Minor Defeat: Allies control less than 8,000 objective points in the Netherlands
Dutch Major Defeat: The Dutch Army surrenders

For every three Dutch divisions destroyed, reduce the Dutch victory level by one. (Territorial commands do not count as divisions, only the 1-8th Divisions, Light Division, and Peel Division)

Belgian victory:

Belgian Major Victory: Allies control 16,000 objective points in Belgium
Belgian Minor Victory: Allies control 10,000 objective points in Belgium
Belgian Minor Defeat: Allies control less than 5,000 objective points in Belgium
Belgian Major Defeat: The Belgian army surrenders.

For every three Belgian divisions destroyed, reduce the Belgian victory level by one.


The Belgian and Dutch players are therefore concerned principally with the defense of their own countries and the preservation of at least a portion of their own armies. The British player’s objectives broadly align with those of the French but the British player will not pursue them to the point that his own army is destroyed.

If commands are assigned by nation, Allied players will have to make arrangements concerning who controls divisions assigned to the command of a foreign army. For instance, the 51st Highland Division is initially assigned to the French Colonial Corps – should it be under French or British command? Should the British player have the right to remove it from French command if he sees fit?

The drawback to assigning commands by nation is that there would necessarily need to be quite a few players (which potentially means slower turn speed) and whichever player  takes the Dutch may be in for a much shorter game – some provision may need to be made to include him on some other command should the Dutch army be defeated swiftly.

[Plain Ian]

Gents:

Cautionary note.   

Lead players, screen recordings, voice/chat programs, 3-4 players per side... your campaign game is ballooning into an unwieldy and super complex endeavor.  

I suggest you boil the complexity down to a more manageable simmer! 

Proposed Structure:

- Two players per side. (Two Allies / Two Germans)
- Use Google Docs to store current turn file. 

Example of turn sequence:

(1.) German Player 1 moves his units / conducts battles. Does NOT end turn and uploads turn file to his Google Docs. Provides password (For German players only) to German Player 2. 

(2.) German Player 2 clicks on URL link to file in Google Docs, enters password, and downloads turn file to his PC. German Player 2 has set number of days to move his units / conduct battles. German Player 2 moves his units / conducts battles. Ends turn and sends turn file to Allied Player 1.

(3.) Allied Player 1 uploads turn file to his Google Docs (For Allied players only) and provides password for Allied Player 2. Both Allied Player 1 and Allied Player 2 have a set number of days to download and review the turn replay. 

(4.) Allied Player 1 clicks on URL link to file in Google Docs, enters password, and downloads turn file to his PC. Allied Player 1 moves his units / conducts battles. Does NOT end turn and uploads turn file to his Google Docs. 

(5.) Allied Player 2 clicks on URL link to file in Google Docs, enters password, and downloads turn file to his PC. Allied Player 2 has set number of days to move his units / conduct battles. Allied Player 2 moves his units / conducts battles. Ends turn and sends turn file to German Player 1.

(6.) German Player 1 uploads turn file to his Google Docs (For German players only). Both German Player 1 and German Player 2 have a set number of days to download and review the turn replay. 

Repeat Turn Sequences 1 - 6 until game end.


Advantages:

- Two players per side reduces complexity and eliminates need for CinC.
- A set number of days for players to conduct their turns helps facilitate and expedite turn exchanges. 
- Google Docs eliminates need for screen capture recordings and voice/chat programs. All players will have the opportunity to watch turn replays.

 I think the first part of (4) is redundant as Player 1 already has the turn file on his PC?
Otherwise this is a pretty workable plan using google rather than emails to keep turns moving.

The point of the screen capture is to reduce fatigue/boredom. Sitting through 30 minutes of replay just to catch the 5 minutes which interest you is not fun but tedious. Each player should install their own software and record the replay just for their own sanity. 
Even better if the first player of each team did it then loaded it to the Google so that the team could play and watch it without having to make their own recordings. Any media player will open and play it.

[ComradeP]

OK, so now it's 2vs2, which leads to the question: do we feel this can be done with 2 players per side or would that give each player too many units to handle?

I know you can play this 1vs1, and that might be enjoyable too, but considering the sheer amount of clicking it's more practical to do this with multiple players. I tend to play with scripted hotkeys to remove part of the strain of clicking over and over.

[Der Landser]

I think this scenario is too much for 2 Allied Players. There are just short of 9500 individual ground units, plus Air and Naval forces on the Allied side.

[larsonney]

I agree that 2x2 is a bit much...I think 3x3 is the way to go!!

[ComradeP]

It's worth noting that the OOB in the OOB editor is theoretical and includes numerous units that are not present. The OOB unit count also indicates the "potential" number of units, with every unit broken down to its smallest component parts. 

For example: for infantry units, you can in many cases divide the number by 3 for Western armies (Soviet battalions usually can't be broken down).

The French also have large numbers of Fixed and fortress units that will be released over time or not at all. There are also considerable reinforcements for both sides, which in the Allied case might cover unit losses whilst the Wehrmacht will grow over time.

[Brammer]

So where are we on this? 3 by 3? Do we have a start date in mind?

[larsonney]

I thought we were waiting for the players notes from Prucha?

[ComradeP]

There was a call to see if the people that initially responded were still interested. After that point, some people left.

If Brammer and larsonney are still interested, we will have enough players for 3 vs 3. I also noticed pokeytrev was initially interested.

It might take a while for the design notes to become available, but Prucha has summarized them in post #24 in this thread. I think that summary is good enough to use.

No start date has been set yet as the teams were not filled up and we still have to decide which campaign scenario we want to play and what optional/house rules we want to use.