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Bulge 16.01s alt - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +---- Forum: TOC AAR/DAR Forum (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=70) +---- Thread: Bulge 16.01s alt (/showthread.php?tid=67856) |
RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - ComradeP - 05-30-2015 Hmm, with those losses I'm wondering how he gained 74 points. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Ricky B - 05-30-2015 I think the points for the prior turn are incorrect, as they match the turn before it exactly. And it was a poor turn for the US. Include the tanks/vehicles/guns in the last turn, and that would likely account for the change, but compare it to 2 turns back rather than just 1. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - ComradeP - 05-30-2015 Good point, I wasn't paying enough attention. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 05-31-2015 (05-30-2015, 11:53 PM)ComradeP Wrote: Good point, I wasn't paying enough attention. No its me that's not paying enough attention. Will go and look at that spreadsheet again. I was a whizz with Excel 97 but I never kept up to date. I could make graphs in those days but this new MS Office just annoys me. Give me a bit to check. Will post a few maps first. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 05-31-2015 Turn 42 German/Allied ![[Image: 2015-05-30_18h31_07_1.png]](http://s646.photobucket.com/user/PlainIan/media/2015-05-30_18h31_07_1.png.html) Germans followed up US withdrawal, but with infantry only? The armour in Boevange has been held back in the safety of the village? Michael possibly wants to conserve his armour. He will know that 4th US Armoured has 3 M4 tank Bns around about 40 each and has a pretty good TD bn. However in Clear terrain, and having first fire against my M4’s with his Panthers, surely this would have been a good move? Anyway lets look at the German infantry moves. He assaulted the 11th Tank Bn which was already Disrupted, using KG (A) and pushed back the battalion. Again it was at heavy cost. (29 men/1 tank - attacker/defender) And there were Disruptions to several German units. The AI defensive was actually quite decent and the US inflicted a further 16 losses in ground/artillery fire. Unfortunately this assault uncovered the cannon company of 8th Regiment which had limbered up last turn and they were lost to artillery and direct fire from KG (A). There were some exchanges of fire but most of turn was artillery concentrated on following US units 54th Arm Inf Bn -58 men lost(Disrupted) 2-8th Bn -65 men 2-12th Bn -25 men (Disrupted) KG (F) and KG (B) actually took disruptions to return/artillery fire. US counter moves. ![[Image: 2015-05-30_19h47_47.png]](http://s646.photobucket.com/user/PlainIan/media/2015-05-30_19h47_47.png.html) I moved up A/60th and pulled out 54th and 2-8th without any defensive fire being triggered. I then opted to hold my ground and fire where possible. I also concentrated my artillery against the 21th VGD unit in KG (A) but since this is a B Morale unit I doubt if it Disrupted. I lost 2 tanks (1 M5 and 1 M4) to defensive fire....... The 8th Tank Bn (40 M4 Morale B with 0 Fatigue) devastated the Pioneer unit adjacent to it. The 37th Tank Bn sat it out. (Low Morale) I pulled back 609th TD Bn (only 5 M18 tanks) and moved up the 704th TD Bn (Morale A and 34 M18 tanks) from 4th Armoured. If he sorties his armour from Boevange then they might add some support. The M18 is a pretty miserable TD with a defensive strength of 4. Leaving it in Clear is not a great idea especially if the AI defense doesn’t fire first against his Panthers. But I need to have something in this hex to allow 19th Tank Bn/2-12thBn/803rd TD Co. to retreat into if he assaults, or if he moves his armour forward and I need to fall back. I think that he will continue his attacks using artillery to make me pull back but will possibly stop when he has cleared the woods. He seems to be looking for a good defensive line? KG (A) looked so ripe for an assault but I have nothing there to attack it with. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 06-01-2015 Sorry to post more boring spreadsheets but I went and looked at the game files and I have put in the wrong points loss for Turn 41. I probably cut and paste wrongly? Here is the results for the last 2 turns as they would be displayed in PzC ....but in spread sheet fashion. ![[Image: 2015-05-31_19h16_00.png]](http://s646.photobucket.com/user/PlainIan/media/2015-05-31_19h16_00.png.html) So despite the Germans losing more men than me, because of my losses in guns/vehicles the net result of Turn 42 was to reduce his points by 2 only. As you can also see I've used the Points values to work out how much each Allied/German loss is worth in terms of points. Therefore each US man the German kills is worth 0.11 points to him. Each German man he losses or I kill is worth 0.12 to me. Since my points are deducted from his I've shown this as a negative number. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - ComradeP - 06-01-2015 Keep in mind that the points depend on both the kind of equipment and the quality. The difference is usually about one VP per quality level per 10 vehicles/guns or 100 men, which is the value displayed in the OOB editor. So: 9 VP's for D quality motorized US infantry, 11 VP's for B quality motorized US infantry. Similarly: 20 VP's for B quality Mixed M4 units, 19 VP's for C quality Mixed M4 units. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 06-02-2015 (06-01-2015, 07:19 PM)ComradeP Wrote: Keep in mind that the points depend on both the kind of equipment and the quality. Mmh ok I didn't realise the values were stored in the OOB file. Funnily enough when I looked at the points per man/gun/vehicle for both GE/US over Turn41/42 they came out the same. I guess with rounding and averaging over large values the points per man/gun/vehicle will not change by much. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 06-02-2015 Turn 42 GE/US - Bastogne ![[Image: 2015-05-31_19h32_53.png]](http://s646.photobucket.com/user/PlainIan/media/2015-05-31_19h32_53.png.html) There was only one German move in this area. He brought up another Pioneer and a motorised Battalion to support his Pioneers already sitting outside Magerotte. I lost 20 men from the engineers in Magerotte and he lost 6. It looks like he has opted for a Sitzkrieg in this area? Possibly if I listen hard enough I will digging? With no VP hexes nearby and faced by two Airborne Divisions it looks like he wwill conserve his armour for the next battle of Bastogne? ![[Image: 2015-05-31_23h08_37.png]](http://s646.photobucket.com/user/PlainIan/media/2015-05-31_23h08_37.png.html) Well I didn't make many moves. I brought up the 501st and nudged into him south of Magerotte. The 2-501st lost some men in the move, and since I didn't have any other artillery targets I peppered his 3 units as best as possible. Note the 3-501st could have actually reached the hex NE and possibly trapped his units from the Fuhrer Begleit Bde. Obviously there is a slight risk in moving adjacent in T mode and unloading. However I'm not going to trap him like that. Bit too gamey. He'll now retreat I would think, which achieves what I want which is to secure the road north from Winfield to Ortheuville. The 501st will probably meet the FBB later on anyway when I start moving on Bastogne. RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 06-02-2015 Turn 42 - Rarmont-La Gleize ![[Image: 2015-06-01_21h40_46.png]](http://s646.photobucket.com/user/PlainIan/media/2015-06-01_21h40_46.png.html) Here is the position at end of the US turn. During the German turn Michael only move 3 groups/units adjacent to me but strangely enough did not use much artillery or ground fire? Strange moves? I moved away from him at Rarmont. The 17th Tank Bn is shepherding the slow moving 296th Eng Bn. The unit belongs to V Corps which means it will have difficulty recovering Fuel and undisrupting. I also fell back from Basse-Bodeaux. At La Gleize I held my position and fired. 3FJD is in Clear and all alone??? Elsewhere I moved tired units out and started bringing up the 335th Rgt of 84th Division. The 334th is en route to the SPA area. CCB/7AD HQ is disrupted because of commandos. I've just about pulled everything out of the Cheneux area. The Armd Engineers are holding back the tanks. Michael seems to have given up at La Gleize? |
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