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Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +---- Forum: TOC AAR/DAR Forum (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=70) +---- Thread: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 (/showthread.php?tid=73406) |
RE: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 - Elxaime - 06-22-2020 As the Central Powers player in this scenario, I can now offer some comments from the other side. First, many thanks for an enjoyable and challenging game. My esteemed opponent was very gentlemanly in pointing out various game mechanics and scenario features, e.g. such as the Montenegrin arrival. As noted, the CP concession was triggered by the surprise encirclement of an entire Bulgarian division, which was doomed to complete destruction as relief was two days away. This was entirely due to catastrophic error. There was a perfectly good Bulgarian cavalry division set to screen the flank, but based on an assessment (mistaken as it turned out) that the French spotted earlier were likely not in great force, the cavalry was sent south to mask some of the Serb population centers. I had calculated this sector would remain quiet long enough for the additional Bulgarian reinforcements to arrive and enable the resumption of the offensive. Although the CP could have fought on past Turn 150, it seemed to me this stroke merited a concession, as the loss of an entire division would severely delay and weaken the Bulgarian southern advance. Generally speaking, aside from the above disaster, elsewhere I was satisfied with the CP advance, with some exceptions: 1. The CP in the Beograd area stayed in close contact with the Serb bunker line during the storm turns, calculating they could keep the pressure on and perhaps get a lucky disruption. However this meant significant infantry losses which, although they could be replaced, gave a lot of victory points to the Allies. In retrospect, I would probably remain quiet during the Storm, resuming the bombardment and advance once the weather lifted. 2. Bad mistake moving a German regiment across a river in 11th Army sector just before the big storm hit. Won't do that again! 3. Early on I was too aggressive with the Bulgarians, leading to some nasty ambushes. The Bulgarians have a big numerical advantage, which you can best exploit if you are patient and outflank the foe. On the bright side, I think I finally got a handle on the best way to advance against Chetnik units, which can disrupt CP guns and MG in T mode as they move up. I ended up keeping the MG and guns further back until my advance enabled me to patrol onto likely Chetnik units. Not foolproof, but I felt this was better than slogging forward with disrupted units, with the side benefit that the MG units could recover strength. In any case, once you are past the bunker lines, the Serbs generally won't stand and fight for more than 2-3 turns against the mass of the CP 3rd and 11th Armies - at least the game ended before a real confrontation resumed - after Beograd it was a slow muddy chase southwards. On massing stacks of battalions, I usually tried to avoid over stacking, but felt that the benefit of raining hellish fire on Serbs I managed to exchange volleys with was worth the risk. This however may be debatable, as on occasion the mass would run into a Serb MG or artillery ambush. My opponent was excellent in his artillery placement, and in reality the CP probably is better off with low visibility, since that enables easier outflanking. On lessons learned, it seems to me the key for the CP is patience. A close second is ensuring reconnaissance, not just to avoid disasters like the Bulgarian encirclement, but to find and exploit the weak spots in the Serb lines. The Serbs are stretched thin, and once you detect a front area held by the less formidable reservists, or less numerous forces, you can push those - this will enable the CP to lever the Serb tougher forces out of even strong positions. One thing I felt I never solved was how to balance this patience with the need to maintain an advance that allows you to get the VP hexes before they disappear. If I was to suggest one possible change in the scenario, it would be to revisit the scheduled of timed VPs for PBEM, as I think they may have been arrived at versus AI, while a clever PBEM opponent will hold them longer. As a quality of life issue, it would also be great if there was an on-map tool-tip telling you when VP hexes disappear, as this would be convenient. All in all, a great scenario with lots of potential player choices. I think this campaign can go either way. My opponent put up a very skilled defense and I felt like by the mid-game I had discovered some counters. But it was outweighed by the Bulgarian disaster! RE: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 - Mr Grumpy - 06-22-2020 (06-22-2020, 01:59 AM)Elxaime Wrote: One thing I felt I never solved was how to balance this patience with the need to maintain an advance that allows you to get the VP hexes before they disappear. If I was to suggest one possible change in the scenario, it would be to revisit the scheduled of timed VPs for PBEM, as I think they may have been arrived at versus AI, while a clever PBEM opponent will hold them longer. As a quality of life issue, it would also be great if there was an on-map tool-tip telling you when VP hexes disappear, as this would be convenient. Excellent feedback thank you, as far as I know the dates/turns on which the vp hex's expire match the actual historical dates that the CP forces captured these locations, these were not arrived at by playing the AI. We discussed ways of making the VP expiry turns more obvious but coding restrictions prevented any of the ideas being used, I agree it is not as user friendly as we would have liked. ![]() RE: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - CP conceded turn 150 - Mr Grumpy - 06-22-2020 (06-22-2020, 12:54 AM)ComradeP Wrote: Closing comments:Thanks for your excellent feedback, glad the two of you enjoyed the game! ![]() RE: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 - Volcano Man - 06-23-2020 Yes, thanks for the feedback. Always good to read thoughts and observations. Seems like you both had fun, and that is my main goal. :) RE: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 - ComradeP - 06-23-2020 How is your team game going? - One thing worth mentioning again is how different the 4th Invasion can be, and was in this case, to other FWWC campaigns in terms of visibility. With visibility 1, field gun and MG units didn't really come into play after the first few days until the minimum visibility was at least 2 hexes in the last three days of the AAR. As support weapon units of a second rate military power like Serbia are small compared to the number of infantry battalions in the divisions, they won't have anything close to the effect of field gun units in France '14 or EP '14, even when they're not Low Ammo. Bulgarian divisions have lots of field guns, but they'll suffer from Low Ammo status for most of the game and Bulgarian divisions are corps-sized. With the infantry battalions causing most of the damage in the first few weeks, the Serbian Army has the advantage due to consisting of mostly B quality infantry. That would probably have changed in November with improving weather and better visibility. RE: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 - Mr Grumpy - 06-24-2020 (06-23-2020, 04:35 PM)ComradeP Wrote: How is your team game going?We are on turn 30 with tough fighting in Beograd, Smederevo and along the Mlava river as the CP forces push to try to take the various objectives before they expire. In my sector (Smederevo and the Mlava) there has been quite a game of cat and mouse as my opponent has tried to find a way to prise me out of the bunker line and I have lived in fear of an arty disruption result that would have allowed him to assault my forces out into open ground, over on the Mlava I have managed to repel his first attempt to cross the river as you allude to in your feedback the 1 km visibility has both helped and hindered both sides in regards to MG/FG units supporting the infantry of both sides, at least on the Mlava line I don't have to contend with any arty as that is still stuck on the wrong bank of the Danube. I am pleased (so far) with how I have organised the Mlava defences and the fact I damaged almost all the bridges means my opponent has had very limited options on where to cross, the Pozarevac vp hex expires on turn 53 so I have another couple of day to hold my opponent back before I can think of retiring. Can't give more detail as that would give the CP side vital intel on the Allied dispositions and intentions. ![]() RE: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 - ComradeP - 06-24-2020 What should slow down the Central Powers in your sector is that their forces on the Serbian side of the Danube will be Isolated from the 12th to the 17th of October now that the "supplies moving across damaged full hex ferries" issue has been fixed. As I wrote when I reported the ferry issue, Central Powers supply sources across the Danube in that sector have a value of less than 20 so they'll disappear when the first supply variation hits. Pre-damaged ferry fix, Central Powers supply values across the Danube were pretty good. RE: Serbia shall live! Serbia '14 4th Invasion AAR - Central Powers conceded turn 150 - Mr Grumpy - 06-25-2020 Thanks for the heads up, I knew the supply sources on the southern bank were only 15 and so as my CP opponent moved south to try to cross the Mlava that would only get worse, I can't see the "low ammo" flags obviously but I am guessing they are a major headache for him! |