I've noticed in several recent games that involved German infantry at close ranges with enemy tanks that the mighty Panzerfaust isn't all it's cracked up to be. In one particular game i knocked out 4 T-34's at short range but all the kills were with the grenade bundle, the Panzerfausts either missed the target completely or failed to do anything at all, yet the grenade bundles seem far more accurate and each one when it hit killed the tank outright. I did put this down to luck but since then i've played several games with similar results, most notably on the Eastern Front. Does this mean that Panzerfausts are under modeled by the game engine, are grenade bundles over modeled or is it something to do with the dreaded abstraction of the games code and close assault ?
Grenade bundle is just another close assault I think, with enhanced lethality...
I have the same view, I think fausts are undermodeled given historical accounts of how useful they were. To be effective fausts must be right on top of vehicles it seems most of the time. Infantry firing them off in the open and woods is a bit suspect too I think, villages and towns to hit walls, yes, firing at infantry in general with fausts in woods or open terrain does not seem effective or how they were used historically (abeit I'm sure green troops under pressure fired everything they had) :)
herroberst Wrote:I have the same view, I think fausts are undermodeled given historical accounts of how useful they were. To be effective fausts must be right on top of vehicles it seems most of the time. Infantry firing them off in the open and woods is a bit suspect too I think, villages and towns to hit walls, yes, firing at infantry in general with fausts in woods or open terrain does not seem effective or how they were used historically (abeit I'm sure green troops under pressure fired everything they had) :)
They sure made short work of your armored car. :whis:
Of course, there were quite a few guys firing at silly close range...
The Coil Wrote:herroberst Wrote:I have the same view, I think fausts are undermodeled given historical accounts of how useful they were. To be effective fausts must be right on top of vehicles it seems most of the time. Infantry firing them off in the open and woods is a bit suspect too I think, villages and towns to hit walls, yes, firing at infantry in general with fausts in woods or open terrain does not seem effective or how they were used historically (abeit I'm sure green troops under pressure fired everything they had) :)
They sure made short work of your armored car. :whis:
Of course, there were quite a few guys firing at silly close range...
That's a real feat, considering you were probably instructing your men to fire those panzerfausts with the "fist" end facing away from the target.
: )
Within a 30m radius, grenade bundles are not affected by range, as it is assumed that your men are now right on top of the tank, or at least one man near it. The abstraction of the game engine often confuses people as to what really is taking place when a grenade, mine or DC is tossed, especially when you have hand held thrown weapons such as the Russian RPG in the mix. I'm not quite positive if the ability "to hit" with a GB within 30m is restricted to contextual variables such as terrain, size of vehicle being attacked, armor type and speed.
That being said, PF are ranged weapons that suffer from maximum distance to target firing and benefit from minimum distance to targeting on an unbenownst to me calculation. If you consider the panzershreck as a comparable weapon (that at least gives you some range probabilities and to kill values), condensced comparatively on a similar range scale, I would suspect that you could figure out statistically your probabilities of fisting your opponent (of course, I would suspect that the likelihood of the opponent being ghey weighs upon how amenable he is to such a proposition).
I expect POS to be along any moment now to provide you with some stunning screenshots on infantry AT weapons, with an infinite amount of wisdom on how to tactically apply their usage from his vast knowledge of the CM engine.
I now defer to POS for that inevitable report (with a good likelihood that he will be able to provide further insight into the fisting process, due to experiences he has had along his tumultuous, dark and epic life story).
; )
Cheers!
Leto
[hirr Wrote:Leto]
The Coil Wrote:herroberst Wrote:I have the same view, I think fausts are undermodeled given historical accounts of how useful they were. To be effective fausts must be right on top of vehicles it seems most of the time. Infantry firing them off in the open and woods is a bit suspect too I think, villages and towns to hit walls, yes, firing at infantry in general with fausts in woods or open terrain does not seem effective or how they were used historically (abeit I'm sure green troops under pressure fired everything they had) :)
They sure made short work of your armored car. :whis:
Of course, there were quite a few guys firing at silly close range...
That's a real feat, considering you were probably instructing your men to fire those panzerfausts with the "fist" end facing away from the target.
No, really, it was quite a tactical feat. My Hetzer was being used in its intended role, firing HE long range at a lone MG, wisely presenting its flank to Herr's AC. He drove his AC up on its flank, right by a tiny patch of scattered trees that housed about a company's worth of infantry that had been huddling confusedly behind a ridge for 20 turns as I decided what to do with them. Never seen so many PF's fired off in 5 seconds. Didn't matter if they were holding them backwards, there were enough flying around that the AC was bound to catch one. Another example of my stunning tactical acumen.
Grenade Bundles sometime just immobilize, especially if lot depends on the outcome. (Murphy).