<![CDATA[Forums - Kursk 43 Mods]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/ Fri, 08 May 2026 02:30:12 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[HPS Kursk '43: Prokhorovka: The Historical Battle]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=71292 Wed, 20 Dec 2017 16:04:58 +0000 Crossroads]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=71292 Prokhorovka: The Historical Battle to Blizt Scenario database. I don't have the game my self, unfortunately, so any errors in the scenario information please let me know and I'll fix them. 

Here's the scenario description by Alan:

Quote:Prokhorovka: The Historical Battle, by Alan R. Arvold

Prokhorovka: This is the historical battle of Prokhorovka based on Christopher Lawrence's book "Kursk: The Battle of Prokhorovka", which is considered to be the definitive and most modern information source on that engagement. It is also based on the Historical Prokhorovka scenario in the video game East Front of the John Tiller's Campaign System, which itself is also based on the book. This scenario only lasts one day.

Note: Design Notes by Alan included in the download.

The scenario has been created with HPS version of the game.

The scenario is available at Blitz Scenario Database: >> HERE <<]]> Prokhorovka: The Historical Battle to Blizt Scenario database. I don't have the game my self, unfortunately, so any errors in the scenario information please let me know and I'll fix them. 

Here's the scenario description by Alan:

Quote:Prokhorovka: The Historical Battle, by Alan R. Arvold

Prokhorovka: This is the historical battle of Prokhorovka based on Christopher Lawrence's book "Kursk: The Battle of Prokhorovka", which is considered to be the definitive and most modern information source on that engagement. It is also based on the Historical Prokhorovka scenario in the video game East Front of the John Tiller's Campaign System, which itself is also based on the book. This scenario only lasts one day.

Note: Design Notes by Alan included in the download.

The scenario has been created with HPS version of the game.

The scenario is available at Blitz Scenario Database: >> HERE <<]]> <![CDATA[0705_01: The Battle of Kursk with Explicit Supply by Gary Cobleigh]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47111 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:31:32 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47111 0705_01: The Battle of Kursk with Explicit Supply Operation Citadel, Kursk Salient, July 4th 1943: It was patently obvious to both sides that the "pinching off" of the huge salient around Kursk was to be the target of the next German "summer offensive". Despite this fact, the attack was still to go ahead, but not quite as planned. Hitler wanted his new "superweapons", the Panther and the Elefant, to debut here. Consequently, the start date of early May was pushed back, and then further back, until it ended up in July. During all this time the Russians dug in, deeper and deeper, on both shoulders of the salient. By the time the attack started, there were seven defensive lines, including dug-in anti-tank strongpoints, anti-tank ditches, and millions of mines had been laid. The Soviets knew exactly what was planned and, for the first time, were prepared in depth for the huge assault. When the storm broke, they were ready, but despite this, it was to be a very close contest, with neither side giving any quarter. This scenario is a modification of Graves' and Avanzini' Full Campaign.Explicit Supply has been added by Gary Cobleigh

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Gary Cobleigh

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> 0705_01: The Battle of Kursk with Explicit Supply Operation Citadel, Kursk Salient, July 4th 1943: It was patently obvious to both sides that the "pinching off" of the huge salient around Kursk was to be the target of the next German "summer offensive". Despite this fact, the attack was still to go ahead, but not quite as planned. Hitler wanted his new "superweapons", the Panther and the Elefant, to debut here. Consequently, the start date of early May was pushed back, and then further back, until it ended up in July. During all this time the Russians dug in, deeper and deeper, on both shoulders of the salient. By the time the attack started, there were seven defensive lines, including dug-in anti-tank strongpoints, anti-tank ditches, and millions of mines had been laid. The Soviets knew exactly what was planned and, for the first time, were prepared in depth for the huge assault. When the storm broke, they were ready, but despite this, it was to be a very close contest, with neither side giving any quarter. This scenario is a modification of Graves' and Avanzini' Full Campaign.Explicit Supply has been added by Gary Cobleigh

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Gary Cobleigh

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> <![CDATA[0705_01AB: Battle of Kursk; Citadel/Operation Edelweiss by Gary Cobleigh]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47109 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:24:52 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47109 0705_01AB: Battle of Kursk; Citadel/Operation Edelweiss Operation Citadel and Edelweiss, Kursk Salient, July 4th 1943:----This Campaign scenario is Operation Citadel with the following Hypothetical operation added to it.....By Mid June it became obvious to the German High Command that the Russian defenses in the Kursk Salient might be too difficult to overcome. At that time the Luftwaffe stepped in and preposed a daring plan. They would drop three Fallschirmjager Divisions into the Salient capture the towns of Kursk and Oboyan and the bridges leading into them. Once done, they would dig in and wait for the arrival of the Ninth Army from the North and the 4th Panzer Army from the South. This plan would be code named "Edelweiss" The Luftwaffe argued that the shock effect of the Paratroopers and the weakening of the Soviet outer defenses to get at the paratroopers made the plan worth doing. Hitler liked the idea and ordered it to be added to Operation Citadel. However, there was a problem. The Luftwaffe was desparately short of transport planes and gliders. Despite preparing for a major drop for almost two years, they still were short of plans and gliders. This meant that it would take three drops over three days to get all the men and equipment into the Salient. Also, in order to minimize the need for massive air cover, the drop needed to be made at night. This would be difficult, as the German pilots were inexperienced in making such a large scale night operation. The paratroopers will be scattered and disorganized. Not to mention the fact that they will be droping on top of several Russian Tank divisions. This scenario has several German Airborne strategy options and fewer Soviet fixed units. This scenario is a modification of the main campaign scenario put together by Graves and Avanzini [Explicit Supply avail.]

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Gary Cobleigh

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> 0705_01AB: Battle of Kursk; Citadel/Operation Edelweiss Operation Citadel and Edelweiss, Kursk Salient, July 4th 1943:----This Campaign scenario is Operation Citadel with the following Hypothetical operation added to it.....By Mid June it became obvious to the German High Command that the Russian defenses in the Kursk Salient might be too difficult to overcome. At that time the Luftwaffe stepped in and preposed a daring plan. They would drop three Fallschirmjager Divisions into the Salient capture the towns of Kursk and Oboyan and the bridges leading into them. Once done, they would dig in and wait for the arrival of the Ninth Army from the North and the 4th Panzer Army from the South. This plan would be code named "Edelweiss" The Luftwaffe argued that the shock effect of the Paratroopers and the weakening of the Soviet outer defenses to get at the paratroopers made the plan worth doing. Hitler liked the idea and ordered it to be added to Operation Citadel. However, there was a problem. The Luftwaffe was desparately short of transport planes and gliders. Despite preparing for a major drop for almost two years, they still were short of plans and gliders. This meant that it would take three drops over three days to get all the men and equipment into the Salient. Also, in order to minimize the need for massive air cover, the drop needed to be made at night. This would be difficult, as the German pilots were inexperienced in making such a large scale night operation. The paratroopers will be scattered and disorganized. Not to mention the fact that they will be droping on top of several Russian Tank divisions. This scenario has several German Airborne strategy options and fewer Soviet fixed units. This scenario is a modification of the main campaign scenario put together by Graves and Avanzini [Explicit Supply avail.]

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Gary Cobleigh

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> <![CDATA[0705_03e: Kursk Army Group South by Michael Tonks]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47107 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:20:03 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47107 0705_03e: Kursk Army Group South This scenario is essentially a cut down version of the full campaign game that is limited to the offensive operations of Army Group South. It is a larger game than the 'Welcome to the Fascists' scenario (WTTF). This scenario aims at creating a more balanced situation with victory possible for both sides. The game differs from WTTF in that the map is much larger so the Russians are unlikely to be pushed right off the map (a major problem in WTTF) and there are more options for the Russians in so far as where their tank reserves will go. Also both sides have more troops available (due to the extension to the south east) but this should favour the Russians overall. Russian air power is also increased with more air units available. The VP schedule is based on WTTF but is increased by 500 points for play balance and the extra VP hexes available for German capture. There is also a German VP exit hex which leads to Kursk and a Russian VP exit hex on the south west edge. I believe this scenario will play out better than WTTF and it offers players the chance to play the most interesting part of the Kursk battle. The only changes made from the stock OB and PDT files are more supply sources for the Russians, German air interception reduced to 50%, Soviet breakdown reduced to 6%, Russian and German AC defence values reduced to 5 or 6 and German Flak half tracks changed to soft targets. Many thanks to the original designers and researchers for producing such a great game.

Large Scenario 120 turns, Designer Michael Tonks

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> 0705_03e: Kursk Army Group South This scenario is essentially a cut down version of the full campaign game that is limited to the offensive operations of Army Group South. It is a larger game than the 'Welcome to the Fascists' scenario (WTTF). This scenario aims at creating a more balanced situation with victory possible for both sides. The game differs from WTTF in that the map is much larger so the Russians are unlikely to be pushed right off the map (a major problem in WTTF) and there are more options for the Russians in so far as where their tank reserves will go. Also both sides have more troops available (due to the extension to the south east) but this should favour the Russians overall. Russian air power is also increased with more air units available. The VP schedule is based on WTTF but is increased by 500 points for play balance and the extra VP hexes available for German capture. There is also a German VP exit hex which leads to Kursk and a Russian VP exit hex on the south west edge. I believe this scenario will play out better than WTTF and it offers players the chance to play the most interesting part of the Kursk battle. The only changes made from the stock OB and PDT files are more supply sources for the Russians, German air interception reduced to 50%, Soviet breakdown reduced to 6%, Russian and German AC defence values reduced to 5 or 6 and German Flak half tracks changed to soft targets. Many thanks to the original designers and researchers for producing such a great game.

Large Scenario 120 turns, Designer Michael Tonks

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> <![CDATA[Kursk: Operation Edelweiss by Gary Cobleigh]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47105 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:58:07 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47105 Kursk: Operation Edelweiss Kursk Hypothetical Campaign Game: Historically, not only were the Russians ready for the German offensive on the Kursk Salient, They new exactly when it was coming. Russian spies had provided Stalin detailed information on the offensive months earlier. Marshal Zhukov and successfully argued that the best way to defeat the German attack was to build a defense in depth. By July 5th 1943, The Russians had constructed 6 separate defensive belts complete with mines, barbed wire, bunkers, antitank traps and Miles of infantry trenches. It turned out to be an impossible Task for the Wehrmacht to reduce the Salient. But what if the German operational planners were made aware of the Russian defenses and had time to augment operation Citadel with counter measures. But what would these measures be? Col. Gen. Kurt Student was brought in and was given the task of putting together an Airborne Operation that would break up the Salient. He returned with plans to drop Three Fallschirmjager Divisions (26,000 men) deep into the Salient behind the Russian defensive belts. They would capture Kursk and Oboyan and the important bridges across the Seym and Psel rivers. And then they would dig in and wait the arrival of the Panzer Divisions. This plan was code named Operation Edelweiss. Student argued that the Russians would be eager to get at the Fallschirmjager units and would have to weaken their outer defenses to do so. (This Hypothetical assumes that Hitler didn't sour on large scale German airborne operations after Crete and in fact allocated resources to Student to develop a full Army (FJAOK 1). Many in the Wehrmacht wanted to break up his command and use his men as normal foot soldiers, So Student was eager to prove that a large Airborne Operation could be successful and that his men were the best soldiers in the Fatherland. Many Wehrmacht Generals argued that it would be days before the FJ Divisions could be relieved and that it would be impossible for them to hold out that long against a determined enemy. But Student brushed there concerns aside and argued that his men had been Training for two years and were ready for anything. By June, Hitler was desperate for a victory and after hearing Student's confidence in his men, gave the order to include Operation Edelweiss In the overall campaign plans for operation Citadel. One element that Student didn't emphasis though was the shortage of transport Plans. It would take three days to get all the men and artillery Into the salient. Also, Student had no way of knowing that his Men would be dropping right on top of 8 Russian Tank Corps! On the Russian side, they where confident that they were ready for the Germans, so when the first Fallschirmjager units began to drop from the sky in the early morning hours of July 5th, a command paralysis of several hours ensued. Adding to this confusion was reports that Germans, disguised as Russian couriers were passing out false orders to Russian units. (This scenario is best with explicit supply).

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Gary Cobleigh

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> Kursk: Operation Edelweiss Kursk Hypothetical Campaign Game: Historically, not only were the Russians ready for the German offensive on the Kursk Salient, They new exactly when it was coming. Russian spies had provided Stalin detailed information on the offensive months earlier. Marshal Zhukov and successfully argued that the best way to defeat the German attack was to build a defense in depth. By July 5th 1943, The Russians had constructed 6 separate defensive belts complete with mines, barbed wire, bunkers, antitank traps and Miles of infantry trenches. It turned out to be an impossible Task for the Wehrmacht to reduce the Salient. But what if the German operational planners were made aware of the Russian defenses and had time to augment operation Citadel with counter measures. But what would these measures be? Col. Gen. Kurt Student was brought in and was given the task of putting together an Airborne Operation that would break up the Salient. He returned with plans to drop Three Fallschirmjager Divisions (26,000 men) deep into the Salient behind the Russian defensive belts. They would capture Kursk and Oboyan and the important bridges across the Seym and Psel rivers. And then they would dig in and wait the arrival of the Panzer Divisions. This plan was code named Operation Edelweiss. Student argued that the Russians would be eager to get at the Fallschirmjager units and would have to weaken their outer defenses to do so. (This Hypothetical assumes that Hitler didn't sour on large scale German airborne operations after Crete and in fact allocated resources to Student to develop a full Army (FJAOK 1). Many in the Wehrmacht wanted to break up his command and use his men as normal foot soldiers, So Student was eager to prove that a large Airborne Operation could be successful and that his men were the best soldiers in the Fatherland. Many Wehrmacht Generals argued that it would be days before the FJ Divisions could be relieved and that it would be impossible for them to hold out that long against a determined enemy. But Student brushed there concerns aside and argued that his men had been Training for two years and were ready for anything. By June, Hitler was desperate for a victory and after hearing Student's confidence in his men, gave the order to include Operation Edelweiss In the overall campaign plans for operation Citadel. One element that Student didn't emphasis though was the shortage of transport Plans. It would take three days to get all the men and artillery Into the salient. Also, Student had no way of knowing that his Men would be dropping right on top of 8 Russian Tank Corps! On the Russian side, they where confident that they were ready for the Germans, so when the first Fallschirmjager units began to drop from the sky in the early morning hours of July 5th, a command paralysis of several hours ensued. Adding to this confusion was reports that Germans, disguised as Russian couriers were passing out false orders to Russian units. (This scenario is best with explicit supply).

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Gary Cobleigh

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> <![CDATA[Kursk: Operation Citadel Trimmed Down by Gary Cobleigh]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47104 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:54:44 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47104 Kursk: Operation Citadel Trimmed Down Historical Campaign Trimmed Down: This is essentially the Historical Full Campaign but with the Map reduced to just include the North and South offensives. Explicit Supply is available.

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Gary Cobleigh

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> Kursk: Operation Citadel Trimmed Down Historical Campaign Trimmed Down: This is essentially the Historical Full Campaign but with the Map reduced to just include the North and South offensives. Explicit Supply is available.

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Gary Cobleigh

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> <![CDATA[La Batalla del Jarama 1937 by Guntxu]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47103 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:51:19 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47103 La Batalla del Jarama 1937 In February of 1937 Madrid is almost totally surrounded by the Nationalist Forces (aka the Fascists). Only the highway to the east, the road to Valencia, remains open for the arrival of reinforcements. The Republicans (aka the Communists) have so far been able to repel all attempts by the Facists to take the city, and Franco decides to change his strategy. Instead of a direct assault he looks to encircle the capital, and orders an offensive in the south, through the valley of the Jarama river, with Arganda the immediate goal, and to link up with the Italians in Alcala de Henares, who are preparing to attack from Guadalajara. The Nationals concentrate five brigades for the offensive, with the main body of the army of Africa, reinforced by German tanks and anti-tank guns and supported from the air by the Condor Legion. But, as luck would have it the Repubicans have chosen the same zone for a counterattack to alleviate pressure on the city, concentrating in the zone, effective elements of the new Republican Army, supported by the determined International Brigades, newly arrived at the front. In addition, the presence of Russian tanks and aircraft were first revealed at Jarama, and would become a decisive factor in resisting Franco's attempt to encircle Madrid at Jarama.

Large Scenario 160 turns, Designer Guntxu

Download Files
Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> La Batalla del Jarama 1937 In February of 1937 Madrid is almost totally surrounded by the Nationalist Forces (aka the Fascists). Only the highway to the east, the road to Valencia, remains open for the arrival of reinforcements. The Republicans (aka the Communists) have so far been able to repel all attempts by the Facists to take the city, and Franco decides to change his strategy. Instead of a direct assault he looks to encircle the capital, and orders an offensive in the south, through the valley of the Jarama river, with Arganda the immediate goal, and to link up with the Italians in Alcala de Henares, who are preparing to attack from Guadalajara. The Nationals concentrate five brigades for the offensive, with the main body of the army of Africa, reinforced by German tanks and anti-tank guns and supported from the air by the Condor Legion. But, as luck would have it the Repubicans have chosen the same zone for a counterattack to alleviate pressure on the city, concentrating in the zone, effective elements of the new Republican Army, supported by the determined International Brigades, newly arrived at the front. In addition, the presence of Russian tanks and aircraft were first revealed at Jarama, and would become a decisive factor in resisting Franco's attempt to encircle Madrid at Jarama.

Large Scenario 160 turns, Designer Guntxu

Download Files
Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> <![CDATA[0705_01: The Battle of Kursk (Clash of the Titans) by Indragnir]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47102 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:47:38 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47102 0705_01: The Battle of Kursk (Clash of the Titans) Operation Citadel, Kursk Salient, July 4th 1943: It was patently obvious to both sides that the "pinching off" of the huge salient around Kursk was to be the target of the next German "summer offensive". Despite this fact, the attack was still to go ahead, but not quite as planned. Hitler wanted his new "superweapons", the Panther and the Elefant, to debut here. Consequently, the start date of early May was pushed back, and then further back, until it ended up in July. During all this time the Russians dug in, deeper and deeper, on both shoulders of the salient. By the time the attack started, there were seven defensive lines, including dug-in anti-tank strongpoints, anti-tank ditches, and millions of mines had been laid. The Soviets knew exactly what was planned and, for the first time, were prepared in depth for the huge assault. When the storm broke, they were ready, but despite this, it was to be a very close contest, with neither side giving any quarter.

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Indragnir

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> 0705_01: The Battle of Kursk (Clash of the Titans) Operation Citadel, Kursk Salient, July 4th 1943: It was patently obvious to both sides that the "pinching off" of the huge salient around Kursk was to be the target of the next German "summer offensive". Despite this fact, the attack was still to go ahead, but not quite as planned. Hitler wanted his new "superweapons", the Panther and the Elefant, to debut here. Consequently, the start date of early May was pushed back, and then further back, until it ended up in July. During all this time the Russians dug in, deeper and deeper, on both shoulders of the salient. By the time the attack started, there were seven defensive lines, including dug-in anti-tank strongpoints, anti-tank ditches, and millions of mines had been laid. The Soviets knew exactly what was planned and, for the first time, were prepared in depth for the huge assault. When the storm broke, they were ready, but despite this, it was to be a very close contest, with neither side giving any quarter.

Large Scenario 121 turns, Designer Indragnir

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> <![CDATA[0710_01R: A better Prokhorovka by Randy Greenwalt]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47101 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:43:47 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=47101 0710_01R: A better Prokhorovka Vorohnezh Front on the south face of the Kursk Bulge, July 10th 1943: After a week of grinding forward through the stifling Soviet defenses, Hausser's II SS Panzer Korps was pressed to begin a hasty attack toward Prokhorovka piecemeal with the forces they had at hand. The German tide at the Battle of Kursk was at hand, coming to a climax when tanks of the 5th Guards Tank Army clashed in a melee of massive scale in what would be the largest tank battle in the world.
Same as 0710_01a except added two German panzer divisions from III PzK, + Corps assets + increased II SS PzK tank strength. ZILCH historical justification, it just makes a better game. The Russians won't be able to hold off this one with one arm and a yawn.

Medium Scenario 30 moves, Designer Randy Greenwalt (Landwehr)

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> 0710_01R: A better Prokhorovka Vorohnezh Front on the south face of the Kursk Bulge, July 10th 1943: After a week of grinding forward through the stifling Soviet defenses, Hausser's II SS Panzer Korps was pressed to begin a hasty attack toward Prokhorovka piecemeal with the forces they had at hand. The German tide at the Battle of Kursk was at hand, coming to a climax when tanks of the 5th Guards Tank Army clashed in a melee of massive scale in what would be the largest tank battle in the world.
Same as 0710_01a except added two German panzer divisions from III PzK, + Corps assets + increased II SS PzK tank strength. ZILCH historical justification, it just makes a better game. The Russians won't be able to hold off this one with one arm and a yawn.

Medium Scenario 30 moves, Designer Randy Greenwalt (Landwehr)

Download Scenario Files

Any comments you would like to leave about this scenario can be posted in this thread.]]> <![CDATA[Forum Info.]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=46969 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:01:14 +0000 Mr Grumpy]]> https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=46969 Blitz, for Volcano Man's Alt Mod scenarios you should visit Volcano Mods.

All these scenarios can be reported on the TOC ladder and for the same points as stock scenarios, any problems downloading the files from this forum should be reported to myself.]]> Blitz, for Volcano Man's Alt Mod scenarios you should visit Volcano Mods.

All these scenarios can be reported on the TOC ladder and for the same points as stock scenarios, any problems downloading the files from this forum should be reported to myself.]]>