Musket and Pike series...

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Xaver: "Next Musket and pike title??? is the serie alive??? nice, REN was interesting and not bad at all, maybe the only thing i dislike was the shot units because engine unlike other games lacks autoretreat feature... for example in FOG II light troops can evade when are assaulted, in REN no, this means you usually cant use fire units (arquebus, bow units...) because range is short and in next turn enemy can destroy them by assault in the moment fire means use all action points... maybe here if that kind units only use 50% of action points when shot... you can made them retreat after shot enemy.

I dont know why but i feel 2nd M&P title is going to cover english civil wars... but something pre napoleonic in XVIII century sounds interesting to."

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This was part of Xaver's post in another thread - thought that it was better to move it here than to continue on in an unrelated thread.

Alive? Sure it is - and there is more than one title in development for that matter.

FOG II iirc, also uses squares and the designed claimed that they were superior to hexes, which seems to be questionable, geometrically speaking -so I wouldn't necessarily go with every thing he claims; Musket and Pike is a different engine, and REN is just one scenario designer's take on how to use the capacity of the engine. However, that being said the engine is scale-able so there is no requirement to actually go with 100 meters per hex, and 20 minute games turns (which is actually built in to the scenario editor) - I guess I am saying that it is possible to use the engine differently than the default.

As Bill (Peters) had alluded to elsewhere, it is a little different though when one goes in to finish something that had been started by others - so sometimes, you have to go (to an extent) with material that you'd inherited, even if it might not be the most ideal situation. The question then becomes, what can be made of this?

I think - and can't prove it yet, that the idea was to lead with your shot, and then work out when it is to withdraw behind a line of pike with linked zoc (mainly to keep the mounted units away - because shot are extremely vulnerable to those as well as being hit by pike block). Or possibly see how a single combined unit that represents pike and shot at the same time works out?

I  did some art for REN, but was testing some things out; the version of REN I have is different than that which is out there; I think -but cannot promise, that a new version of for REN will probably come out closer to the time the next title is published.

The thing about the M&P graphics? They are pretty easy to be made to work in NB; however there are some things that I wouldn't touch (when I work) like the unit pictures that show in the menu; the maps and whatever shows on them ... sure thing - easy as.  Done it already.

I also plan on doing a version for the new look Civil War titles - mostly so I can get some work with converting and designing in a larger scale.  There is a lot of room that can be used on the larger counters- so much so, that I think there are more possibilities there than making a larger version of the unit graphic from the other smaller 2d levels.

My own personal philosophy, is that with 2d - you don't need shadows, or other 3d effects - leave that to the 3d (2d = table top boardgame.... 3d = miniatures game --- so the different graphics have different effects and purposes).  That's just me though, however it is also how I work and what I work towards.

[Sgt_Rock]

New version of REN - you mean the original REN game is going to be reissued or that a newer REN - same time period as the REN game we know - is going to be released? Can you clarify this as it sounds confusing.

Maybe you are trying to say that a new game in the M&P series is going to be released and I am just being my usual dense self LOL.

Anyway, so glad to hear that this series is going to have more titles. TYW and GNW and ECW all would be great future titles. Thanks for keeping us posted, Steve! :)

[Xaver]

I prefer hexes over squares to but only because to create "wings" or scalate flanks squares are horrible and you need use more troops compared with hexes... but squares are more clear to linear face to face combats.

In art i never use 3D in Tiller part because 2D for me is more clear and i "understand" better what i see and part because in 3D you cant see battalion-regiment-brigade colours very well, you cant use unit bases because they dont have colour and disable them create a big mess of colours when you stack units or you have a big concentration of units. The portraits in REN are very good and i like the use of smaller figures to show the soldier and not only his face like in other Tiller series.

Shot units in REN have the problem that use them in defense is a big problem because they cant work as unit to offer enemy a "fire wall" (even in trenches they are weak) and working as skirmishers overcomplicated their use apart that they are less effective dealing damage but if you dont want expose your weak fire units to enemy assault infantry you need do this.... is true that add skirmishers to block formations to increase the firepower is a good part of engine even when now block formations have the ability to fire but force to much have shot units as skirmisher vending machine EXCEPT the musket units that with a range of 4 are a lot more versatile than arquebus units but they are smaller and less common.

Is interesting know that engine is going to be updated, expect this help REN and the XVII century battles until block formations change to more classic line units (if i dont remember bad Sweden mantein more time the pike even until early XVIII century when rest of european nations discard it for the bayonet).

The good thing with Tiller engine is that you can adapt scale in same title when you need it because you can have diferent PDT files, even one per battle if you need it.

ECWs could be a separate title or could be part of a TYW title but have a new M&P title is a good add and double good add if means improve REN.

Good luck and expect we can know about new title when is in our HDs hehehe.

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New version of REN - you mean the original REN game is going to be reissued or that a newer REN - same time period as the REN game we know - is going to be released? Can you clarify this as it sounds confusing.

Maybe you are trying to say that a new game in the M&P series is going to be released and I am just being my usual dense self LOL.

Anyway, so glad to hear that this series is going to have more titles. TYW and GNW and ECW all would be great future titles. Thanks for keeping us posted, Steve! :)

Apologies for the confusion, Bill, I meant engine updates applied to REN - I have some screenshots using the elevation changes on hexsides (like what was applied to NB), that engine update hasn't been put out yet.

And there is a project that is pretty far along; no precise details that I can share on that, or really know apart from I am able now to focus more on the title that is following that one in the queue: it will mean a lot of reviewing things that I set aside to do the GC material ... so that will be interesting too.

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I prefer hexes over squares to but only because to create "wings" or scalate flanks squares are horrible and you need use more troops compared with hexes... but squares are more clear to linear face to face combats.

In art i never use 3D in Tiller part because 2D for me is more clear and i "understand" better what i see and part because in 3D you cant see battalion-regiment-brigade colours very well, you cant use unit bases because they dont have colour and disable them create a big mess of colours when you stack units or you have a big concentration of units. The portraits in REN are very good and i like the use of smaller figures to show the soldier and not only his face like in other Tiller series.

Shot units in REN have the problem that use them in defense is a big problem because they cant work as unit to offer enemy a "fire wall" (even in trenches they are weak) and working as skirmishers overcomplicated their use apart that they are less effective dealing damage but if you dont want expose your weak fire units to enemy assault infantry you need do this.... is true that add skirmishers to block formations to increase the firepower is a good part of engine even when now block formations have the ability to fire but force to much have shot units as skirmisher vending machine EXCEPT the musket units that with a range of 4 are a lot more versatile than arquebus units but they are smaller and less common.

Is interesting know that engine is going to be updated, expect this help REN and the XVII century battles until block formations change to more classic line units (if i dont remember bad Sweden mantein more time the pike even until early XVIII century when rest of european nations discard it for the bayonet).

The good thing with Tiller engine is that you can adapt scale in same title when you need it because you can have diferent PDT files, even one per battle if you need it.

ECWs could be a separate title or could be part of a TYW title but have a new M&P title is a good add and double good add if means improve REN.

Good luck and expect we can know about new title when is in our HDs hehehe.

I might tone down the unitbox and leaderbox that I did for REN (apply some white balance) - to get Joe's figures to stand out a little better. It is decent right now, but I think it can maybe be better.

With only 15 nation slots, one has to be selective when deciding what sides to add.

Personally I don't believe that muskets should have ever had a range of 4 at 100 meters per hex; I don't have the reference in front of me - but from what I have read that muskets in that period and a bit later (matchlocks if you will), were more or less as effective as they were in the Napoleonic Wars - in terms of range -granted they had a different rate of fire, and there were different formations used to increase the volume of fire - but made for deeper (and bigger) targets ... I guess that is about as far as I am going to go on some basic research topics.  I don't actually remember where I saw it, but am relatively certain it is on one of my bookshelves.

And of course my 'excuse' for not being so well read --- it is sort of Mr Peters' (and Mr White's, and Mr Bamford's for that matter) fault .... as I am about halfway through the 4th and final volume of Simon Scarrow's historical fiction twin stories of Wellington and Napoleon ... and I am going to finish it!!! (I sorta have to at this point - it is like a quest) ... before getting going on the other stuff again.

[Xaver]

In REN muskets have range 4, i imagine this is to made them diferent to arquebus even when both are basically in effective combat range practically the same compared with posterior XXVIII muskets... the diference is more in that with time fire weapons become more portable,reliable and with the introduction of bayonet you can have all infantry armed with fireweapons that can work as pikes with a great increase of units firepower and the viable use of solo musket armed units because they can selfdefense VS calvary and other infantry in close combat.

The REN periods muskets were closer to minicanons i allways find them like WWII AT rifles but instead VS tanks VS armored infantry-cavalry, you need wait until late XXVII century to see the fall of armor protection.

In the engine if fire units can only use 50% of their action points to fire they are going to be a lot more usable because you can move forward leaving the infantry cover, fire and return to the infantry protection... if you dont suffer a disruption in the movement phase.... with this is not necesary have a range of 4 for muskets, you can have arquebus+muskets with range 2 with a diference in firepower being muskets more powerfull at range 2 but maybe weaker at range 1 because they have slower reload time.

The unit art is great in 2D for REN maybe 3D needs be closer to nap serie with smaller infantry soldiers but more dense doing like in "Pike and shot" to represent pikes in formations.

PD: if i dont remember bad somebody is working in a mod for REN... unit art and terrain... i dont remember now if is one mod or 2 diferent mods...

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PD: if i dont remember bad somebody is working in a mod for REN... unit art and terrain... i dont remember now if is one mod or 2 diferent mods...

I'll see if I can get a few screenshots of what I did for REN a few months ago. I had a few weeks to spend on this stuff do to an unscheduled holiday in July and August.  Not a mod though ... practice, yes, but not a mod.

[Xaver]

I see, i dont remember that the mod images i see were from your blog

http://www.hist-sdc.com/

I am using the stock counters in REN + Volcanoman NATO mod for nap series and looks fine i imagine that when engine offer extra zoom level is going to be line in last nap titles that include it.



The problem is when you want use bigger counters like you are showing in the blog because the formation colour is not showed very well, to small and not center in the middle of the new counter.

For example using a nap counter mod in MAW to have bigger counters with some 3D effect the unit formation colour not scale to the new counter size and is not very visible (here use in counters more basic colours helps made formation colour more visible, more complex the colour you add to counters harder to see formation colours).



Even when you are not using NATO symbols and they are closer to the stock Tiller symbols they look better in bigger counters, i am curious if is possible scale the unit formation colour to the new counter size to made it cover more space than in the stock counters.

Any way last art for counters in ACW looks interesting and your art in your test-mod is attractive even when is more classic and the map art remember me a lot SB mods with abatis very in the line of PzB serie... looking more like an obstacle and not a "turds field" 

Expect we can see soon™ new M&P title

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[quote pid='423301' dateline='1512648228']
 Expect we can see soon™ new M&P title
[/quote]

Heh - um yeh those things in the field - I wanted something else. Is what I currently have the final answer? No, probably not, but it is for now.

The NATO symbols, while I think it can be better, right now it is sharper than what it had been (it has to be- I cleaned off enough fragments ... nevermind that ).   But the real answer is, I can't use anyone else's material like that -so if it changes, it has to be something that I come up with. 

What am I waiting for? Ok, say that someday I get instructions to go ahead and make up another, larger, 2D set of graphics - then that changes what you can do with that room (on the larger counters) -and that is what I am looking at working with when I get to focus on some graphics again.  To be clear, though, I am not saying this is happening, but I might want to show that it can and that it is not really a lot more work. 

My point being, I have seen the ones Petersburg uses, and if I were to use that as a demonstration model ... I think that on that set, for sure, there are a lot of possibilities; there sure is a lot of room there with which to work. I started messing around with it maybe 4 or so weeks ago, but since then I have had some 'competing priorities' come up in some areas, so that has been put on the backburner.

Since I am talking about demonstrating techniques, I had thought trying my hand at painted 3d maps if for no other reason, than to learn the process. But even if I do, it doesn't mean that anything like that is anything but a picture -and not necessarily ever be usable in a game title.  It is more showing that it can be done.  I don't know when that might happen - but I want to understand the methodology

As for the bit I left up there ... all I can say is my own major portion of it is done. And I get to focus on the next one after that again.

[Sgt_Rock]

Its good to hear that the M&P series is going to get more titles. That era is interesting and I played a lot of REN scenarios in the past.

Thanks for updating us on what is going on even if you cannot divulge names of titles its good to hear that these games are back in development.