Sending attached support BACK up the chain

[Weasel]

Checked on line and read the manual, am I correct that if I want to send an attached support unit back to a higher HQ (in this case a construction battalion attached to an army back to Stavka) I have to use the 'pick new HQ' as per 5.4.25; assign new hq?  I know there use to be an X beside the unit when it was attached to a lower HQ, but not now.

[Gris]

Checked on line and read the manual, am I correct that if I want to send an attached support unit back to a higher HQ (in this case a construction battalion attached to an army back to Stavka) I have to use the 'pick new HQ' as per 5.4.25; assign new hq?  I know there use to be an X beside the unit when it was attached to a lower HQ, but not now.

Maybe, depends on how many you have attached. If you want to send all your support units higher for free, set the support level to zero. Have the higher HQs set to 5 or higher. I set Stakva to 9 till I get all the SU sorted and then I lock it. Just to make sure there is room to accept the units. Rule 7.6.3.2. Automatic Attachment of Support Units.

Construction units do not always move because there are minimum limits. So if you are at the minimum, you do have to manually reassign them. Rule 7.6.3.3. Construction and Engineer Permanent Support Levels.

Pro tip: After you manually move out the construction units you want reassigned, set the HQ to "LOCKED" or they will move right back and you will waste admin points.

See you on the Steppe!

[Weasel]

Setting the HQ to a level affects all attached support units, so if I have 10 artillery units and 3 construction, and I set my level to 3 then the construction will stay but 7 artillery will be sent home. Thus that does not work if you only want to send a single unit back; so I assume paying the 1 AP is mandatory then.

[Gris]

Setting the HQ to a level affects all attached support units, so if I have 10 artillery units and 3 construction, and I set my level to 3 then the construction will stay but 7 artillery will be sent home.  Thus that does not work if you only want to send a single unit back; so I assume paying the 1 AP is mandatory then.

Hi Weasel,

The "Support Level" is not a unit count, it is a type count. Rule 5.4.16. HQ Unit Detail Window & 7.6.3.2. Automatic Attachment of Support Units.

Support Level: Indicates the number of each type of support unit that the computer will attempt to automatically assign to the headquarters. Below this are buttons to increase (ADD) or decrease (SUB) the current support level. Selecting LOCK will turn off the automatic movement of support units to and from the headquarters. Note that automatic assignment will not function for that particular headquarters unit if any higher headquarters unit in that HQ unit's chain, to include the High Command, is set to LOCKED (7.6.3).

You have three options when it comes to support units.

1. Macro level

 If you want to play the macro game and let the computer handle it, set the support level number to what you want, say 3, 3 artillery, 3 armor, 3 ect ect ect. Then the computer will attempt to meet this max limit of the settings (it won't for all units, you don't have enough support units). You can move units in and out if you like, but then the computer will go behind and adjust. If you choose this one, let the computer handle it.

2. Micro Level

“Locked” your HQs. You then moved in or out (or for the Soviets build) each Support Unit you want for that particular HQ. This cost admin points in certain cases (Rule 12.2), but you decide your force mix. Very effective, but tedious at times, you can't just set it once and you are good for the entire war. You will have to change it base on your operational and production situation.

Pro Tip - What’s New PDF V1.08.00 – October 21, 2014 106. Soviet support units of brigade size will now cost 3 AP to form. Soviet support units of regimental size will now cost 2 AP to form.All other are 1 AP. 

3. Strategic events occurring across the entire theatre down to areas of operations. 

This is when you clear all your support units out to a higher HQ. Stavka or OKH. There are two common events, one for each side when this anomaly occurs. It is a function derived from the game, not history.

A. June 1941. With the initial Axis invasion all Soviet support units are distributed back to Stavka (OKH) to avoid encirclement by the advancing Wehrmacht. This removes them from the Soviet Corps HQs scheduled for disbandment and avoids the admin cost. Stavka (OKH) (or you Commander) can redistribute Support back down to Front and Army HQ.

B. December 1941. With the onset of the Blizzard, the Axis can send all of their Support Units back to OKH and avoid encirclement in the coming Blizzard. After the Blizzard the units are available for use in the 42 Summer offensive pending reassignment.

C. In order to move the Support Units by using the in game automation, set all your HQs to 0 Support Level. You can do this in the Commander’s Report under the HQ tab. Set Stavka and OKH to 9. Wait for all the units to file back to higher (it may take a few turns). After the combat supports are out of the HQ, “Locked” the HQ’s. Next, you will have to manually move the construction units which fall under the minimum stated in the prior post. 

When the crisis is over, you can have the computer repopulate the desired HQ’s (Front or Army) by setting the Support Level or you can keep all the HQ’s locked and manually assign the Support Units where you want them.

(If anyone needs clarification, post a question and I’ll answer, this is a brief overview and not meant to cover every aspect or situation you may encounter at the Front)

Rule 26.3.3.1. HQs Tab View - SupL (Support Level): Lists the current support unit level for that HQ unit (7.6.3.2). Selecting the current number or Lck (Locked) brings up a dialog box that allows the player to reset the support level for that HQ unit between -1 and 9, with -1 changing the setting to Locked.

Review Rule 15.4. Support Units in Combat to determine how many SU to assign.

You can use one or a combination of the above, the method you choose, is your decision, Commander.

See you on the Steppe!

[Ricky B]

Great info, never understood the details on support, thought it was a ratio or likelihood setting compared to other HQs.

[Gris]

Great info, never understood the details on support, thought it was a ratio or likelihood setting compared to other HQs.

Hi Ricky B,

At first I found it odd, I can't say for sure, but I believe it is based on artillery units because they are the most numerous and units stack them, especially Soviets. When I use it (usually late game when the Soviets are filled to the brim with SU units) it really cuts down on the micro. For most units setting, 3 Support Level seems to work, since you can only commit 6 SU to a combat at a time (with exceptions of course because this is WITE, 18 is max). When you go higher is seems to load up some HQs and other will have none. So if you went to 6 and you have 50 HQs, you are telling it to assign 300 artillery type units, which you don't have, so it seems to start "somewhere" till it runs out. Which leads to the confusion on what the number 3 in the Support Level setting means. You can use the Commander's Report to figure out a good setting using this. If you have 300 artillery units (your type at the bottom of units tab) / by your Front-Army HQs in the HQ Tab, say 50, then 6 Support Level is a good starting point. I usually go with Artillery because it is the most numerous.

Also the more you have assigned to an HQ, the less chance each one has for commitment. This is only for HQ's, units are another topic entirely and apply more to Axis and late game Soviet.

Again, this is my perception as far as what to set the Support Level too, I can't based it on anything in the engine. Given what I see in the game, the rules do seem to match the execution. As always, the manual makes it hard to figure out. The Support units are a game within itself. As is the manual. 

It is a good place to start. Just to reiterate, this is for the macro game. 

In micro, Stalin does what He wants. 

[Weasel]

Hi Gris; Thanks for all that, and I understood it before posting my question (except sending all the German SU back to Adolf, never thought of doing that), but my point still stands, the only way to send a single unit of any type back up the chain without affecting all other SU in the HQ is to use the 'new HQ' option and expend 1 AP. The 'X' option, or any other option, do not exist in the game.

I micro manage assigning SU as I see fit.

[Gris]

Hi Gris;  Thanks for all that, and I understood it before posting my question (except sending all the German SU back to Adolf, never thought of doing that), but my point still stands, the only way to send a single unit of any type back up the chain without affecting all other SU in the HQ is to use the 'new HQ' option and expend 1 AP.  The 'X' option, or any other option, do not exist in the game.

I micro manage assigning SU as I see fit.

Hi Weasel,

Agree, the only other option is to disband, obviously not the same effect.

[Weasel]

I should have clarified that according to the Matrix you can click on the X beside the unit.

You did remind me of one thing I was forgetting about, I was thinking the AI would commit 3 of each type to a battle, but that isn't so, it is a max of 6 of ANY type; I have some HQs with 3 of each type of artillery plus sappers, rockets, etc; total waste. If you set it to 3 instead of LOCKED, will it put 3 of each type of artillery into a HQ (3x mdm arty, 3x heavy, 3x rocket etc) or will it pick 3 in a combination? When I started this battle I did as your notes say, set everyone to 0 to send them all back to Stavka, and then deployed to my armies.

[Gris]

I should have clarified that according to the Matrix you can click on the X beside the unit.

You did remind me of one thing I was forgetting about, I was thinking the AI would commit 3 of each type to a battle, but that isn't so, it is a max of 6 of ANY type; I have some HQs with 3 of each type of artillery plus sappers, rockets, etc; total waste.  If you set it to 3 instead of LOCKED, will it put 3 of each type of artillery into a HQ (3x mdm arty, 3x heavy, 3x rocket etc) or will it pick 3 in a combination?  When I started this battle I did as your notes say, set everyone to 0 to send them all back to Stavka, and then deployed to my armies.

Hi Weasel,

I am not sure of the formula for selection in the engine, but if you look at the unit tab in the commander's report, the filter works by types. To the best of my knowledge those are the breakdown by type. So 3 Arm, 3 Art, 3 Inf etc etc. As far as "artillery', you have Mortars, Rockets, Artillery, and SP Guns. So there is 4 types for a total of 12 if set to 3. Med and Hvy Art fall under artillery.

7.6.3.2. Automatic Attachment of Support Units Each eligible headquarters unit can have its support unit level set by the player by using the ADD or SUB buttons located in the headquarters unit detail window (5.4.16). The level setting indicates the number of each type of support unit that the computer will attempt to provide to that particular headquarters unit, based on availability. For example, if the player sets "Support Level" to 3 the computer would attempt to provide 3 support units of each type, to include Armored, Anti-Tank, Artillery, Anti-aircraft, Rocket, etc. 

See 26.3.2.4. Units Tab Display Filters

From my experience in the game, it works like it is stated in the rule above.

"it is a max of 6 of ANY type; I have some HQs with 3 of each type of artillery plus sappers, rockets, etc; total waste."

Remember is it per battle, so one HQ supports more than one unit, so you can and will use more than six over several battles. Of course taking into consideration whether they pass the initiative commitment check. 

3 support level seems to work for me, you only have so many units. In my last game I had 60 Army HQs in Mar 1942, set at 3 that is 180 artillery units. Of those type you may have more, but other types you may have a dozen. I take the extra and throw them into Moscow or Leningrad, or where needed. I also "Locked" units too, depend on the year in the game and if the force mix is what I want, I want it to remain fix. I also have a tendency to lean toward casual play over time. By 1944 I use the Support Level system and micro the direct assignment to corps.

I still use the same system, setting the HQ to zero, etc, etc. Honestly it is easier in 1941. There is so much going on, I let the system help me where it can. If I remember at the start there is 150 artillery units alone. That is a lot to move on your own, plus you don't have the admin points anyways. In my current game I am trying something new and sending everything to the Fronts and sorting from there. I set Stavka to 9 and the Fronts to 9 also (not the Military Districts, set them to 0) everything else to zero. I want to see if it helps with the distribution. Then I will distribute from the Fronts to Armies. I will let you know how it turns out. 

The Support Level system is really there if you don't want to micro it, the micro is very time consuming, so the game gives you an out and for the most part it works as intended.

Hope this helps!