Confused on game mechanics

[Bloody Bill]

Ok, since I am new to the game series especially mp I would appreciate some clarification on a situation that seems to make no sense to me.

Ok so here is the situation.

Battle of Voltri.....I am Austria  My line unit is just over 500 men in good order.  I have a French unit flanked and in a firefight with another Austrian unit.  I move my 500 man Regiment up and fire into the French units back.  The French unit is just over 700 men.  I kill 39 men and disorder them.  I than charge the French unit in its rear and I am thrashed.  Its not even close.  I lose 92 men and the disordered, flanked French lose 8.  Both forces quality is "C" 

I don't understand how being flanked and disorganized the French can still be that good.  I would have to charge them in the front.



Logan

[Liebchen]

Ok, since I am new to the game series especially mp I would appreciate some clarification on a situation that seems to make no sense to me.

Ok so here is the situation.

Battle of Voltri.....I am Austria  My line unit is just over 500 men in good order.  I have a French unit flanked and in a firefight with another Austrian unit.  I move my 500 man Regiment up and fire into the French units back.  The French unit is just over 700 men.  I kill 39 men and disorder them.  I than charge the French unit in its rear and I am thrashed.  Its not even close.  I lose 92 men and the disordered, flanked French lose 8.  Both forces quality is "C" 

I don't understand how being flanked and disorganized the French can still be that good.  I would have to charge them in the front.



Logan

Well, regardless of any other factors, I do note that you were attacking them at less than even odds. That's rarely a good idea, in any wargame.

[agmoss99]

Well you attacked at 1:2 odds but with a modifyer of 2 I think for a flank/rear melee. Poor odds. And attacking in line makes it worse, always melee in column. I think you lose a third the number for a line attack so it may have actually been 1:3 odds.

It doesn't matter what state a defender is in, they defend at full strength. Only a disordered attacker suffers penalties.

[kolc]

In this situation, if the French unit had a skirmisher unit stacked with it, would that negate any flank/rear benefit for the melee attacker (Austrian), even if they attacked in column?

[agmoss99]

Yes. If the skirmisher was facing the attacking unit.

[Bloody Bill]

Ok, I see the situation now. I am use to Miniature games to much. I falsely thought the defender suffered a large negative effect for the attack in the back and the disorganization.

Thanks gents

Logan

[kolc]

Yes. If the skirmisher was facing the attacking unit.

How do you determine which direction a skirmisher is facing?

[BigDuke66]

I doubt that skirmishers work that way. At least in fire combat having skirmishers in the same hex brings you nothing, that they bring anything for melee is doubtful.
But I do not know how melee damage is applied so maybe a lot damage hit the skirmisher and not the battalion and so you were not able to drive the battalion out of the hex.

Besides this anyone should internalize that the normal combat calculations force the attacker to have 2/3 more men than the attacker to achieve even odds. So attacking 700 men would need 1167 men, of course you can lower the need by achieving certain modifiers for the attacking unit:
1. Attack in column formation(unless your British).
2. Do not fire your weapons.
3. Have a leader join the melee.

[Bloody Bill]

There was no skirmisher in the hex. The defending unit was disorganized and facing away from me. I did fire into its back causing the disorganization and then charged in line with my 500 to their 700. I know I had less but I thought the flank and disorganization would make up the difference. I also had an officer with my unit. I understand not pushing them from the hex or both taking losses but I did not understand how they could score a hit of 92 men and only lose 8. That was my main confusion.

There was no skirmisher in this fight and I thought skirmishers gave no bonus to melee as they automatically fall back when charged.



Logan

[Jagger]

There was no skirmisher in the hex.  The defending unit was disorganized and facing away from me.  I did fire into its back causing the disorganization and then charged in line with my 500 to their 700.  I know I had less but I thought the flank and disorganization would make up the difference.  I also had an officer with my unit.  I understand not pushing them from the hex or both taking losses but I did not understand how they could score a hit of 92 men and only lose 8.  That was my main confusion.  

There was no skirmisher in this fight and I thought skirmishers gave no bonus to melee as they automatically fall back when charged.



Logan

In general, the melee system for ACW and Nap are basically the same.  I looked at the melee system pretty closely for ACW and noted that even with extreme odds, like 5 or 6-1,  you can still lose the melee.  The odds favor the side with the greater numbers and beneficial modifiers but there is almost never a guarantee you are going to win.