(05-03-2017, 11:47 AM)Weasel Wrote: Those points in the manual, which I had read before posting this question, still do not give any idea of how many points should be evacuated. From what I have gleaned on the Matrix site evacuate 1 point for AFV/aircraft, but armaments and such are not stated. Also it states in the manual that HI is required to build the supplies which the factories require to build the weapons of war, so why would you let these be captured and destroyed? To my way of thinking HI is the bases of the pyramid and everything an army requires flows up from it. Is this not correct?
You are probably looking for these numbers, but you will not see them anywhere listed as how many you have to evac, you will see it as how many the Axis have to destroy or inverse, how many the Soviets need to save.
If the Axis destroy the following amounts you are generally considered in trouble according to most post on the forums.
Heavy Industry total 236 - do not lose more than 36
Armament point total 370 - do not lose more than 70
Fuel points total 149 - do not lose more than 9
The list is only a decision tree if you have to get several different types out of a single hex that is going to fall. So if I have 10000 point of rail and 2 AP and 2 HI. I can move 2 AP (4800x2 rail cost) or 1 HI (8000). So I would save 2 AP. Why?
Here are the magic numbers. It has to due with how many points are really in jeopardy. Let's just say the Axis are having a bang up year. They advance the realistic maximum possible in the game. That puts 227 out of 370 AP in danger, 107 out of 236 in danger. So assuming the Axis are killing you, you have to move 157 AP & 71 HI. 157 AP x 4800 = 753600 rail points. 71 HI x 8000 = 568000 rail points.
The game doesn't track how many are lost directly, you have to do it yourself, (may have change too, I do not use this myself). You also have to move units too around the front. So you usually can move 4 AP and 4 HI a turn. So AP is higher on the list because of importance in logistics, more to move, and more points in jeopardy than HI. In addition they are found in larger concentrations. Almost 1/3 of them are in 6 cities (116 AP). HI is more spread out.
AP, HI, vehicle, can all evac piecemeal. If I have 10 points in a hex, I can move all 10 in 1 turn, or 1 point each turn in 10.
Ground equipment and planes (actual systems) can only move once. So if you have 10 T-34 factory points in a hex, you move 1, you lose the other 9 and they have to be rebuilt (automatically, not handle by the player). The rail cost varies by system. So to move all 10 may cost more points than you can afford and if you wait, you may not be able to move more than 1, just to save the system, because once it is lost, you can't replace it. 1 point is the minimum, you always want to evac more than that.
As far as the pyramid, if you have to choose, you can lose the HI and still be ok, lose too many armament points and your army will not be large enough for the Soviet steamroller. That is what the list helps with. It is considered the lesser of two evils to run short on supplies than AP. AP uses a smaller portion of supplies at a 1s:5ap ratio.
The problem with these kind of numbers is:
1. They change - somebody could look at this and say I'm wrong. I may be. Probably am. Something in the math or meta is different. They play the beta, I don't etc etc. Opinions too, someone might say HI is more important than AP.
2. If you are losing in factories, you are probably losing big time in other areas. Most players are going to quit when Leningrad, Moscow, and Rostov fall. The current Meta with the Panzer Ball and HQ buildup has players quitting before turn 10 with Moscow surrounded.
3. And therein lies the big problem with numbers. The top players over at matrix with all these numbers are way out of my league. They are playing pro and I am little league. Yes, we are both playing baseball, but not the same game. The min/max of numbers only matters if both are using it. I think most of the player base isn't and never gets that far. All these numbers make it harder than it has to be. Every factory counts and you should try to save as many you can. It also leads to gamey stuff like driving your factories into the Axis lines for destruction (yes, a real tactic, that Stalin would shoot you for, just sayin') So, often without thinking I shy away from it. Hence, missing your question. The upside is, they are a good starting point if you want to micro the factory game. It has merit.
I try and put info out there that will stand the test of time. Numbers do not hold well in WITE guides. I will put together some basics on the factories in another post that should help. In all seriousness I would evac everything I could and not let the Axis have anything. That is what the Soviets did. It worked for them. Actual numbers are tough and tied to many different variables.
I do hope this helps my friend, (and I hope I got the number right!) See you on the Steppe.