France 14 playability

[Feddar]

I know this is a loaded question.

I bought France 14 a while ago. I tried to learn how to play, but gave up, because it was quite clunky and hard to figure out. I have recently tried again to figure it out. Again, I find that it takes a long time to move pieces, find HQs, and keep things organized. There is quite a bit of detail, which is great, and the learning curve seems to be quite steep. I like complex games generally, but this one seems a bit tedious.

My question is this. Once you have mastered the interface and rules, it is worth it? Is there a lot of replay, or is it mostly a slugfest that takes a while to manage?

Sorry to ask, but I've put about 20 hours into this in total, and I feel that I am nowhere just yet.

Looking forward to any response...

[Mr Grumpy]

Reading your comments it seems to me that this is a classic case of trying to run before you can walk, if you are struggling to locate HQ's and find there are too many units to move then you are trying to play scenarios that are far too large before you understand how the game systems and engine works.

In the years I have been reading this forum this issue has surfaced many times as new players with little or no experience ignore the small scenarios and throw themselves into the big scenarios with many turns and high unit density only to then post how frustrating the game is to play.

Having said that F14 does in general have a much higher unit density than many PzC titles (but not all) so maybe a PzC title with lower unit density would suit you better?

Keep to the small scenarios and don't progress until you feel happy that you fully understand the rules and how the game engine functions, once you achieve that you can then slowly move onto bigger scenarios.

[Feddar]

Thanks for your input.

I have only played 2 scenarios. The tutorial, with the notes to help get going, and Halen, which is very small.

My question isn't about how hard the game is to play. I like hard games. My question is about how interesting the game is once you learn the mechanics and all the details. Is it worth putting the time in?



Thanks again

[Mr Grumpy]

No problem, that is a difficult question to answer as everyone's taste is different, personally I have enjoyed every Tiller game I have played and over the last 10+ years I must have played thousands of hours! I love the detail and the complexity of the game engine, personally I am not bothered by graphics which is one aspect that puts younger players off who often want flashy graphics.

The other big plus is that unlike other game series there are no old games in respect of new features as all the games are updated
to the same level when a new feature is introduced.

The PBEM feature really brings these games to life as playing another human is so much more enjoyable that the AI and I have met some great opponents from all over the world.

So I would say go ahead and put the effort in, but of course I cannot guarantee that at the end you will find the enjoyment you get is worth the effort?

[76mm]

I hate to keep going on about this, but one way to relieve the tedium is to install a program that will allow you to use more hotkeys--having more hotkeys makes it much easier to manage/track units. A popular program is AutoHotKey, there are a couple of threads on this forum about it.

[BigDuke66]

Download it here:
http://ahkscript.org/
Very useful.

Coming back to playability I must say with a bit more work on the manual some things might be more clear right from the start and not until you tried what you read and see how it goes in the "reality".
I have worked myself into 4 Tiller engines by now and I always had to add some notes to the manuals just to make things more clear and make a spreadsheet with a collection of the various modifiers that are taken into calculation in various game procedures like assault, offensive fire, indirect fire, etc.. I can only recommend doing the same as you can surely play it without using the manual much but you surely won't master the game it.
But even doing this isn't enough, in my first game against a human I learned a lot and I saw were I made my mistakes that cost me the victory in the end.

What you can also do is simply play against yourself and try various things out, turn the on-map results off to get detail combat reports so you can see in detail the modifiers used and now what is a good or bad idea depending on the situation.

Now if you want to do WW1 this series seems the best horse in the stable, I only know some scenarios from TOAW that cover WW1 and comparing them TOAW might be easier to master but also lacks a bunch of detail as TOAW is more on an operational level while in Tillers WW1 series we are down to a tactical level.

[Mr Grumpy]

But even doing this isn't enough, in my first game against a human I learned a lot and I saw were I made my mistakes that cost me the victory in the end.

Indeed, learning the manual and how the game engine operates against the AI is the theory test, once you start playing against a human that will be the practical test..........

[Feddar]

Ok, ok, you convinced me. I'll keep on learning and trying. I'll be back asking for a game in a month or two...

[jim pfleck]

Feddar,
I am busy now but next week if you want to start a small game I can walk you through some stuff. I had the same problem getting into the game but I have become addicted to it.

[Mr Grumpy]

Thanks Jim for offering to help, I just don't have the time to tutor anyone just now.