Questions about modern campaigns game

[CarnageINC]

I have a question and a comment on the MC games.

First off, what do the numbers in the airstrike box stand for exactly? Specifically the 3 that have slashes by them? I assume there hard and soft attack factors but that is a guess.

My comment is why oh why does this game engine NOT allow targeting of Hind helicopters by tanks and their main gun! I'm a ex-M1A1 tanker and we trained to use Sabot rounds against Hinds whenever we ran across them. To have Hinds stand off 2 hexes and plink away at your tanks is frustrating! I mean come on....their right their....BOOM!....but nooo...gotta tink tink tink with the 50 Cal. I guess....

Just throwing my 2cents in about that

[JDR Dragoon]

Main Program Help File p.41:

"The number before the name of the airplane type indicates the number of
aircraft in that unit. The three numbers (separated by slashes) following the
name of the aircraft type are the hard-attack value, soft-attack value, and
defense value of the aircraft type".


If you want to, you can use the OOB editor to give tanks a 2-hex AA range. The only problem is, that this is against all that flies, so the tanks will fire their 2-hex range mainguns at planes as well :-)

[CarnageINC]

Main Program Help File p.41:

"The number before the name of the airplane type indicates the number of
aircraft in that unit. The three numbers (separated by slashes) following the
name of the aircraft type are the hard-attack value, soft-attack value, and
defense value of the aircraft type".


If you want to, you can use the OOB editor to give tanks a 2-hex AA range. The only problem is, that this is against all that flies, so the tanks will fire their 2-hex range mainguns at planes as well :-)

AHHH! I knew it was somewhere in the Main Program Help file... Thanks for info sir.

I have no desire to mess with the editor, I just wanted to rant about it for a bit. I think its an oversight on the designers part that all.

[Volcano Man]

My comment is why oh why does this game engine NOT allow targeting of Hind helicopters by tanks and their main gun! I'm a ex-M1A1 tanker and we trained to use Sabot rounds against Hinds whenever we ran across them. To have Hinds stand off 2 hexes and plink away at your tanks is frustrating! I mean come on....their right their....BOOM!....but nooo...gotta tink tink tink with the 50 Cal. I guess....

It does use the maingun. IIRC, (someone correct me if I am wrong) the AA rating is not used when firing at helicopters, instead I think it uses the soft attack value. I am almost sure of this unless it was changed in an update, and if so then AA is only used against airstrikes.

[tbridges]

[/quote]
It does use the maingun. IIRC, (someone correct me if I am wrong) the AA rating is not used when firing at helicopters, instead I think it uses the soft attack value. I am almost sure of this unless it was changed in an update, and if so then AA is only used against airstrikes.
[/quote]

Sooo... if I want to protect a particularly valuable unit against a potential helicopter attack, I can stack it with a unit that has a high soft attack value, not neccesarily an AA/Flak vehicle?

[JDR Dragoon]

NO! Emphatically NO!

Helicopters are aircraft and when flying they are fired upon using the AA value of the firing unit (User manual p.27).

[tbridges]

NO! Emphatically NO!

Helicopters are aircraft and when flying they are fired upon using the AA value of the firing unit (User manual p.27).

Rune appears to be correct. Another blurb from the User Manual, pg. 44 confirms it: (Presuming, of course, that my copy of the manual is the most current version)

"Firing at Flying Helicopters"
"A unit uses its AA fire value when firing at a flying helicopter unit. A unit with no AA attack value or an AA range of 0 cannot fire at a flying helicopter."
.

[Volcano Man]

NO! Emphatically NO!

Wow, calm down, I made a mistake. ;)

Bu yes, you are right, ignore my post - I just verified in a test too that it is using the AA rating.

This must of been changed at some point -- I was speaking from what I remembered when I made the "Jihad 2004" mod for Middle East '67, but that was a long time ago (~10 years?) back when helicopters were relatively new to the whole game, and probably broken somewhat as I suspect they were being treated as soft targets and not air units.

So, I guess the answer to this thread's question is that you have to put ADA with your forces if you want to shoot down helos. Sure tanks IRL can engage helicopters with main gun, but the problem is (according to how it works here) you cannot boost tank AA ratings because then they would shoot down fixed wing planes from airstrikes better too, which doesn't make any sense. Some things just have to be abstract like that.

[tbridges]

Speaking of helicopters standing off 2 hexes and firing...

Does the "Range Effect" modifier (on the PDT), that normally reduces ranged fire effectiveness, apply to helicopters? Or is their fire just as effective from two hexes as it is from one?

[JDR Dragoon]

Yes, but Helicopters sporting weapons are usually marked as "Guided" because they are firing ATGM, so in practice no ;-)