Change Log vs. Vanilla EF

[Crossroads]

Please note: This mod did not touch any of the existing units, all changes are add-ons, leaving all the stock scenarios etc untouched and uneffected.

LATEST UPDATE: May 14 2012.
- V1.01 of OOB available from the download thread.

TO-DO FOR LMW v1.1
- Molotov Squads. No Winter War scenario can be complete without them!
- England and France, migrated to EF2, if possible, for what-if Winter War scenarios with Anglo-French Expedition force making it to Karelian Isthmus. Requires a scenario setup with Axis Russia and Allied Finland.
- More scenarios!

- Any wishes for add-ons, pls post in this thread!



Workplan:

1. Review Current OOB

2. Decide on changes to current OOB
- individual platoons
- larger organisations

3. Implement changes to platoon and weapons values

3. Obtain all necessary bitmaps, pictures, unit text to new / modified units

4. Have the OOB encrypted

5. Test the new OOB

6. Copy the new OOB into Allied Finland
- EF slot 15 currently unused?

7. Create a couple of new scenarios for Lapland War


Choose the approach:

a) "Quick Fix" (modify existing Jaegers, add a couple of historical new units)
b) "A more proper fix" (add 'proper' Jaeger units as new units as well, provide new higher level organisations with 'proper' Jaegers. Revise my Kuuterselka scenario.)
c) "Complete Overhaul" (leave current OOB as-is, come up with additional, wholly new OOB's with all unit values reconsidered and changed if necessary). Out of scope for "Lapland War 1.0" - Maybe later? Requires a team effort.

The current plan is to implement option b).
- For pointing out the obvious, though, rename existing Jaeger Platoon => 'Jaeger Platoon (SMG)', and Jaeger Engineer Platoon => 'Jaeger Engineer Platoon (SMG)'

MODIFIED UNITS

Edit: Will be added as a completely new unit!

(1) Jaeger platoons

P05209 1939-40
P05217 1940-44
P05213 1944-

Unit type: 258 (old) 2 (new)
Carry/tow: 385 (old) 1155 (new)

Changed to rifle platoons, from SMG platoons. Values comparable to Finnish Rifle platoon of same era.
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/FORMATIONS3.htm
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/FORMATIONS6.htm
Old values, early / midwar / late war:
Fire cost: 33
Assault: 9 / 9 / 9
Range:
Hard 1 / 2 / 15
Soft 4 1 / 5 2 1 / 5 2 1

New values, early / midwar / late war:
Fire cost: 35
Assault: 6 / 7 / 8 (Edit: assault value lowered)
Range:
Hard 1 / 2 / 15 (Edit: late war hard value lowered)
Soft 6 2 1 / 7 4 2 / 8 4 2 (Edit: soft values lowered)

For comparison: Late war Finnish Rifle platoon:
Assault: 7
Hard 15
Soft 7 4 2

Todo:
- New unit pictures (early war: existing) mid war, late war infantry
- Unit text modifications

Note: this change will affect existing scenarios... But SMG platoons, they did not exist apart from special missions (Jaeger Eng Platoon a very good candidate for those with plenty of SMGs, satchel charges etc).

(2) P05015 Bicycles.

Fixed with the correct JTCS bicycle code.

ADDED UNITS

(1) P05711 Sniper team
A direct copy of Russian Sniper team (P00717, lower defense than German, otherwise similar) with German Sniper Team bitmaps (P01711)

Todo:
- New unit picture


(1) P05233 Tank Hunter Squad

A direct copy of German WF Tank Hunter Squad (P01233), as same equipment and tactics were available to Finns.

Todo:
- New unit picture
- Unit text

(2) P05125 PzKpfw IV J

A direct copy of German PzKpfw IV H unit (P01973). 30 pz IVs were purchased, 15 were delivered from Germany in summer 1944.

Todo:
- New unit picture
- Unit text

(3) P05126 ISU-152

A direct copy of Russian ISU-152 (P0030). A few of these monsters were captured and put immediately into use in Summer 1944.

Todo:
- New unit picture
- Unit text

http://www.andreaslarka.net/mediumheavytanks.html

OOB CHANGES

(1) Tank Battalion

To represent the 2nd Tank Battalion, equipped with Pz IVs

Todo: Check the late war Armoured Division OOB, add a new one for Lapland War (9 - 12 1944, 1 1945 ->)

[Crossroads]

Picture candidates:

Mid-War Foot Infantry Platoon




Late-War Foot Infantry Platoon



Swedish Volunteers



Anti tank squad / Tank Hunter Team





Panzerkampfwagen IV J





ISU-152



... and a cool pic of infantry on move...

[Crossroads]

Scenarios affected by changes made

Winter War:
Long Walk Home
- Kaurita.*
- No jaegers
https://www.theblitz.club/scenarios/Camp...8&ladder=2

Frozen Hell
- Suomussalmi.*
- No jaegers
https://www.theblitz.club/scenarios/Camp...3&ladder=2

White Death
- Haukila.*
- No jaegers
https://www.theblitz.club/scenarios/Camp...6&ladder=2

Cracking The Line
- Lahde.*
- No jaegers
https://www.theblitz.club/scenarios/Camp...6&ladder=2

Continuation War:
Race for the Neva
- Kamenny.*
- A full 1st Jaeger Brigade.
- Current balance: 100-0-0 for Allied player. A slightly stronger Jaeger unit hardly an issue...
https://www.theblitz.club/scenarios/Camp...8&ladder=2

Crusade for Hango
- Jaeger platoon per Bn + Regimental Jaeger platoons, ca 10% of infantry units
- Current balance: 14-0-86 for Allied player. A slightly stronger Jaeger unit hardly an issue...
https://www.theblitz.club/scenarios/Camp...2&ladder=2

** Bitter Kuuterselka 2.0
- Kuuterselka.*
- A full Jaeger Brigade. Possible rebalancing needed...
https://www.theblitz.club/scenarios/Camp...6&ladder=2

Discussion: https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=57030

[Hawk Kriegsman]

A couple of quick comments here.

For your rifle based Jaeger platoons you actually need to lower the assult factor for the new unit.

Part of the high assult factor is the SMG.

Please note Russian SMG units having an assualt of 9 and the Rifle unit having a 4.

Gemran Volksgrenadiers (SMG armed) have an assult of 6 while regular infatry is 4 or 5.

To sum up rifle based units do not and should not have a higer assault factor than SMG based units.

May I also suggest that instead of replacing the current Jaeger unit that you instead create a new Jaeger rifle unit. This way you do not effect stock scenarios or custom scenarios that are not your own.

This gives you the commando style Jaeger (current unit) and the more common Jaeger unit (new unit).

You also should tone down the late war hard attack value. While the Finns did use Panzerfausts and Panzershrecks they did not have them in the numbers that the Germans did. The late war Finns should have some AT pop, but it should be slightly less than the Germans.

Additional you should be very careful in making changes to the Finnish OOB that will affect stock scenarios. Those are not supposed to be changed.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Crossroads]

Thanks Hawk!

This is exactly the reason why I write my thoughts into open

You are right about the assault value, I changed the fire cost but forgot to change assault to reflect it is a rifle unit now.

I will consider your comments on changing the existing Jaeger platoon. It is just so wrong, a bit like all 1944 German rifle units would have Sturmgehwers... So while I agree with you fully on principle, I might still just go on and change them on this little universe of mine...

That's why I checked the scenarios that would be affected, and there were two stock scenarios only, both quite unbalanced at the moment, although perhaps not that many times played. The other was played 11, other 7 times. So not a terrible loss? Again, I agree fully on the principle of having no changes to existing scenarios, and will continue to be fully transparent about this.

... And will consider not changing the existing one. But there were no SMG brigades, so for example Race for Neva is terribly wrong as it is... :chin:

Another small thing. Being the lazy guy that I am, I am considering changing Finnish bicycles to be able to carry all sort of infantry, instead of just bicycle infantry.

Bicycles were very common, cavalry units gave away their horses, and currently you can either have skiing + tank riding OR bicycling and tank riding as a feature, and imo all Finnish units would need to have skiing and bicycle capability, the poor country that we were it reflects the truth...

The other option would be to duplicate all infantry units with a bicycle / ski capable clone, seems like excess.

Again, I appreaciate all comments coming my way! Keep them comin'! :thumbs_up:

EDIT:

For everyone's information: I can't of course change anything by my own devices. For any change I propose I need Jason to encrypt the new file for me. So it is not like what I write here automatically happens.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

You are right about the assault value, I changed the fire cost but forgot to change assault to reflect it is a rifle unit now.

I will consider your comments on changing the existing Jaeger platoon. It is just so wrong, a bit like all 1944 German rifle units would have Sturmgehwers... So while I agree with you fully on principle, I might still just go on and change them on this little universe of mine...

That's why I checked the scenarios that would be affected, and there were two stock scenarios only, both quite unbalanced at the moment, although perhaps not that many times played. The other was played 11, other 7 times. So not a terrible loss? Again, I agree fully on the principle of having no changes to existing scenarios, and will continue to be fully transparent about this.

I would stronly urge creating an new Jaeger unit as to not effect existing scenarios. It does not matter that they are hardly played or poor. But it does matter that is someone elses work.

... And will consider not changing the existing one. But there were no SMG brigades, so for example Race for Neva is terribly wrong as it is... :chin:

Better to create a new Jaeger and recreate the scenario.

Another small thing. Being the lazy guy that I am, I am considering changing Finnish bicycles to be able to carry all sort of infantry, instead of just bicycle infantry.

Bicycles were very common, cavalry units gave away their horses, and currently you can either have skiing + tank riding OR bicycling and tank riding as a feature, and imo all Finnish units would need to have skiing and bicycle capability, the poor country that we were it reflects the truth...

I can see doing this for calvary units but not others. Case in point is the late war German bicycle and calvary units. They have lower fire power and minimal AT capacity than regular German infanty. The Finns should be the same.

Again, I appreaciate all comments coming my way! Keep them comin'! :thumbs_up:

No problem.

Please add sniper teams to you R&D list. Very important for the Finns.

Thanx!

Hawk

---

New values, early / midwar / late war:
Fire cost: 35
Assault: 6 / 7 / 8 (Edit: assault value lowered)
Range:
Hard 1 / 2 / 15 (Edit: late war hard value lowered)
Soft 6 2 1 / 7 4 2 / 8 4 2 (Edit: soft values lowered)

The assault values are out of step with the other nationalities in the game.

What you have here is similar to the Japanese and late war US Marines.

Might I sugest 5 / 5/ 6 which is better than the Russians every step of the way and on par with the similarly equipped Germans.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Crossroads]

Thanks again Erik :)

I will ask for Jason's opinion for Jaeger unit when I finally am able to send my text files for compilation. If he is against the change I will add a new unit.

Consider this as a change request to an existing unit, that would be fixed in the next patch... If change request is not granted, I will of course indeed create a new unit.

It is just that I am having terrible problems with game picturing full brigades armed with SMGs, when in reality they continued to be scarce and valuable weapons for pretty much the duration of whole war... :pullhair:

As for bicycles, I will propably end up leaving them as is. It's not like having them in the scenario adds to the fun side, but it does add to the realism side...

I will add the sniper team. Thanks for the idea!

Again, I am writing this as an open white paper. Everything I put here is open to suggestion and constructive criticism!

---

The assault values are out of step with the other nationalities in the game.

What you have here is similar to the Japanese and late war US Marines.

Might I sugest 5 / 5/ 6 which is better than the Russians every step of the way and on par with the similarly equipped Germans.

Thanx!

Hawk

:chin:

Interesting...

Finnish late war rifle values are comparable to Schutzen 43 in Hard values, they are of course less in soft values due to lack of MG42s, while assault value of Schutzen is only 4, in comparison to Finnish rifles 7...

Sorry, need to log off now, getting late in this side of globe... Will continue tomorrow!

[Crossroads]

Added my latest thoughts to OP.

Added Sniper team.

Completely agree with Finnish Rifle Platoon assault values being too high.

Do I have to provide new Rifle units as well!? And Bicycle platoons it seems while at it.

I have a feeling this mod will not end up as the quick fix I imagined it to be? :hissy:

[Crossroads]

New Platoon Data - Release Candidate 0.1

Are the assault and defence values OK? I only modified the assault values, though.

1st value: strength
2nd value: assault
3rd value: defence

[------------------------ Battle Kat's Lapland War Mod ------------------------------]

P05233 3 1 4 40 50 25 12 7 0 2 0 0 25 0 0 46 45 P05233 2 258 385 2048 1 13 43 12 53 12 0 0 0 Anti-tank Squad , Anti-tank Sqd , (VALUES FROM GERMAN TANK HUNTER SQUAD)

P05250 6 4 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 38 P05201 3 258 387 0 1 13 39 11 40 12 0 0 0 Rifle Platoon , Rifle Pltn 39 ,
P05251 6 4 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 38 P05201 3 258 387 0 1 13 41 1 44 5 0 0 0 Rifle Platoon , Rifle Pltn 41 ,
P05252 6 5 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 38 P05201 4 258 387 0 1 13 44 6 53 12 0 0 0 Rifle Platoon , Rifle Pltn 44 ,

P05253 6 4 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 43 42 P05206 3 258 1155 0 1 13 39 11 40 12 0 0 0 Bicycle Platoon , Bicl Pltn 39 ,
P05254 6 4 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 43 42 P05206 3 258 1155 0 1 13 41 1 44 5 0 0 0 Bicycle Platoon , Bicl Pltn 41 ,
P05255 6 5 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 43 42 P05206 3 258 1155 0 1 13 44 6 53 12 0 0 0 Bicycle Platoon , Bicl Pltn 44 ,

P05260 6 5 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 52 P05209 4 258 387 0 1 13 39 11 40 12 0 0 0 Jaeger Platoon , Jaeger Pltn 39 ,
P05261 6 5 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 52 P05209 4 258 387 0 1 13 41 1 44 5 0 0 0 Jaeger Platoon , Jaeger Pltn 41 ,
P05262 6 6 8 35 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 52 P05209 5 258 387 0 1 13 44 6 53 12 0 0 0 Jaeger Platoon , Jaeger Pltn 44 ,

P05263 6 8 8 33 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 52 P05209 4 258 387 0 1 13 39 11 40 12 0 0 0 Jaeger SMG Platoon , Jaeger SMG Pltn 39 ,
P05264 6 8 8 33 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 52 P05209 4 258 387 0 1 13 41 1 44 5 0 0 0 Jaeger SMG Platoon , Jaeger SMG Pltn 41 ,
P05265 6 9 8 33 50 25 10 5 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 2 52 P05209 5 258 387 0 1 13 44 6 53 12 0 0 0 Jaeger SMG Platoon , Jaeger SMG Pltn 44 ,

P05266 6 8 8 35 50 50 9 4 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 5 52 P05210 5 258 385 0 65539 5 39 11 40 12 0 0 0 Jaeger Engineer Platoon , Jaeger Eng Pltn 39 ,
P05267 6 8 8 35 50 50 9 4 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 5 52 P05210 5 258 385 0 65539 5 41 1 44 5 0 0 0 Jaeger Engineer Platoon , Jaeger Eng Pltn 41 ,
P05268 6 8 8 35 50 50 9 4 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 5 52 P05210 6 258 385 0 65539 5 44 6 53 12 0 0 0 Jaeger Engineer Platoon , Jaeger Eng Pltn 44 ,

P05269 6 8 8 33 50 50 9 4 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 5 52 P05210 5 258 385 0 65539 5 41 1 44 5 0 0 0 Combat Engineer Platoon , Combat Eng Pltn 41 ,
P05270 6 9 8 33 50 50 9 4 0 2 0 10 0 0 0 5 52 P05210 6 258 385 0 65539 5 44 6 53 12 0 0 0 Combat Engineer Platoon , Combat Eng Pltn 44 ,

P05275 6 0 1 0 10 10 24 0 0 3 0 11 0 0 0 61 15 P05015 1 512 16 0 0 0 39 11 53 12 0 0 0 Bicycles , Bicycles ,


P05711 2 1 8 35 25 25 11 6 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 57 P05711 3 258 385 1024 1 13 39 11 53 12 0 0 0 Sniper Team , Sniper , (VALUES FROM RUSSIAN SNIPER TEAM)

P05125 3 7 7 35 0 0 38 16 25 2 4 1 11 0 1 6 8 P05125 6 33 16 1 0 15 44 6 53 12 7 3 3 PzKpfw IVJ Medium Tanks , Pz IVJ ,

P05126 3 2 13 50 0 0 37 19 46 2 5 1 12 0 1 30 20 P05126 7 97 16 1 0 13 44 6 53 12 15 13 12 ISU-152 152mm Assault Guns , ISU-152 ,

---

New Platoon Weapons Data - Release Candidate 0.1

Are the values OK?

[------------------------ Battle Kat's Lapland War Mod ------------------------------]

*Rifle Platoon (NO CHANGES, assault value WAS reduced)
P05250 1
6 2 1
P05251 2
7 4 2
P05252 15
7 4 2

* Bicycle Platoon (= equal values to rifle platoon)
P05253 1
6 2 1
P05254 2
7 4 2
P05255 15
7 4 2

* Jaeger platoon (= now essentially a rifle platoon)
P05260 1
6 2 1
P05261 2
7 4 2
P05262 15
8 5 2

* Jaeger SMG platoon (= special purposes SMG assault team)
P05263 1
4 1
P05264 2
5 2 1
P05265 15
6 2 1

* Jaeger Engineer (= regular engineers within Jaeger formations)
P05266 1
8 4
P05267 2
8 4
P05268 15
8 4

* Combat Engineer (= Finnish Sturmpioneer)
P05269 2
10 4 2
P05270 18
12 5 2

* Anti-tank Squad NOT CHANGED
P05233 28
5

* Sniper Squad NOT CHANGED
P05711 1
12 10 10 8

* Bicycles NOT CHANGED
P05075 0
0

*PzIV NOT CHANGED
P05125 28 26 24 22 19 16 13 12 11 10 9 8
11 11 11 10 10 10 9 9 8 8 7 7 6 6 5 5

*ISU-152 NOT CHANGED
P05126 28 25 22 19 16 13 10 7
24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 13 12 12 12

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Hello Petri,

Those values look good and comparable to their counter parts.

Thanx!

Hawk