Quick Reference Cards for PC?

[ivanmoe]

Has anyone ever tried to summarize any of these Panzer Campaign game's parameter data into something more useable than that found in the game's parameter data dialogue and the parameter editor?

[Dog Soldier]

No, those tools work very well. Been using them for 10 years now. If you are playing the parameter data file is easy to access from the help menu or the F4 hot key. It is laid out in a very logical order once you get used to it.
The editor is a good tool for constructing a modded scenario. Be very careful you do not mess up an existing pdt file that comes with the game title. PBEM players take a very dim view to changing that file in a unilateral fashion.

Dog Soldier

[Marquo]

No, those tools work very well. Been using them for 10 years now. If you are playing the parameter data file is easy to access from the help menu or the F4 hot key. It is laid out in a very logical order once you get used to it.
The editor is a good tool for constructing a modded scenario. Be very careful you do not mess up an existing pdt file that comes with the game title. PBEM players take a very dim view to changing that file in a unilateral fashion.

Dog Soldier

A hanging offense in the Royal Navy

[ivanmoe]

Well, am I to take it that there's no interest among you guys in making the games more accessible to players who might recoil at the prospect of purchasing a game, the internal workings of which are fairly difficult to discern?

That's a question, BTW.

I'd note that there's a long tradition of providing useful documentation, in both board and computer games, to noobs who are interested enough in a game to consider it worth purchasing.

[Ricky B]

I think someone in the past put together a printable PDT for the standard PDT for each game. But that was years ago and each update can change the PDT - since it is a manual process, the person who did it probably didn't bother changing it again. Anyway, to the question of making the games more accessible, from us as users, I think many of us have provided tools to help where we see a need. To me, there is no need to print the PDT - or at least the vast bulk of it. I prefer to let the game run itself, and most of the PDT is information used to run it behind the scenes, not something useful to a player - I am talking about the movement costs. I couldn't, and wouldn't, use those to calculate a move, I just like to see how far I can move, sometimes keeping movement left to fire once, and the in game tools allow me to do that.

Items I do like to check in the PDT are: stacking limits, especially for road movement, loss recovery rates, and day/night/dawn/dusk turn settings. The other 1500 numbers, or whatever, are just numbers to me.

But back to making it accessible, and per your original question - yes someone created some kind of sheet, that person didn't maintain the sheets for each game. What do you think would be a usable summary of these numbers? What I see as best, due to things changing, would be a summary list of important numbers and where to find them in the in game PDT display - what do you think of that idea?

Thoughts?

Rick

[Al]

Items I do like to check in the PDT are: stacking limits, especially for road movement, loss recovery rates, and day/night/dawn/dusk turn settings.

For the larger/campaign scenarios checking the rail values are useful, too - how much and even if you have any at all.

If I'm not mistaken the PDT values vary for each title so one quick reference card for the whole series would be quite a task.

[Ricky B]

Exactly Al, they do vary. And yes, rail values are only accessible in the PDT file, I think, and can play a large role, something I frequently forget about until I realize rails would be helpful to my troops - playing Tunisia right now and was surprised I could move by rail as the Germans, not sure if it is useful or not, but I did find the Allies could also rail right into my rear if I am not careful so I am blowing some rails just in case.

Other items I wouldn't find useful to look up - defense values, since they show up in the hex info.

Rick

[raizer]

I wish there was a rail ticker-to tell us how much we have and how much we have left...that way one could look at the totals left and prioritize what you want to rail.

[Mr Grumpy]

Exactly Al, they do vary.

This is the point that ivanmoe might not appreciate, with 20+ titles keeping on top of this and making sure the PDT sheets are 100% correct would be a full time job and not many players have that amount free time.

I agree with the other guys, a press of F4 to view the PDT is no issue for me at all, a much more complicated issue is the optional rules in these titles which we have spent a lot of time trying to help the community with.

[ivanmoe]

I prefer to let the game run itself, and most of the PDT is information used to run it behind the scenes, not something useful to a player - I am talking about the movement costs. I couldn't, and wouldn't, use those to calculate a move, I just like to see how far I can move, sometimes keeping movement left to fire once, and the in game tools allow me to do that.

I'm surprised to hear that you wouldn't carefully examine movement rates/costs to plot a move in a game that uses this system. For example, how would you know how to budget your Travel-movement in such a way that a unit is able to exit the mode as close to the enemy as possible (assuming that's your aim)?

Items I do like to check in the PDT are: stacking limits, especially for road movement, loss recovery rates, and day/night/dawn/dusk turn settings. The other 1500 numbers, or whatever, are just numbers to me.

Unless I come across a behavior that appears to be fouled-up, I'm not really interested in the more arcane working of these games, either. However, it strikes me that it would be really useful for the developer to highlight items like those you cite above. My gosh, they've been patching these games for years (for which everyone I'm sure is grateful). In the wake of all that work, I just can't help but think that they'd want to tidy up their documentation in a culmination of effort.

But back to making it accessible, and per your original question - yes someone created some kind of sheet, that person didn't maintain the sheets for each game. What do you think would be a usable summary of these numbers? What I see as best, due to things changing, would be a summary list of important numbers and where to find them in the in game PDT display - what do you think of that idea?

Honestly, I think that it'd be a huge help if the developer (and that appears to entail the efforts of dozens of guys) would include a PDF with each patch that includes the following:
a) simple data that players will find useful in playing the games. In its absence, anyone who wants to play these games is going to have to look the items up and write it all down or put it in a text file for easy access.
b) an outline of rules that are unique to the game in question-of how its different from other games in the "Panzer Campaigns" series.
c) The change log that now appears in the patch README file.

Thoughts?

Well, I see folks heaping mass volumes of BS&T into these games. The work manifests itself all manner of product, art, scenarios, et cetera, moving small mountains to improve that which can be improved. And I'd note that it was the inclusion of the new 2-D view that has gotten me interested in Panzer Campaigns again. With that in mind, I'd suggest that fleshing out the documentation with some kind of "Quick Reference Card" PDF for the individual titles wouldn't clash with the hard-coding!;)