An Open Letter to Scenario Designers

Kool Kat · (This post was last modified: 03-03-2010, 10:12 AM by Kool Kat.)

Dear CS Scenario Designers:

I (as a CS player) greatly appreciate all the time and effort that goes into designing new scenarios. :)

I understand that you can't work on new scenario designs full time because of work, family, and other real life stuff. I know that many of you put in the time and effort because you want to see "good" and balanced CS scenarios for players. You believe, like me, that new additions and scenarios are the "life blood" that will keep CS players interested and the game platform moving forward for years. I thank you all for your efforts! :smoke:

But you, as a scenario designer, also have a responsibility to complete what you have begun. You must be willing to work with play testers and revise your scenario based on test report feedback. And be willing to continue to work through multiple revisions until a much better designed scenario emerges.

Play testers invest their gaming time and effort into assisting designers with their creations. I've helped play test designs... and am willing to continue to do so... provided the scenario designer is willing to do his part... which is play an active role in the scenario revision process by listening to play testers, communicating changes, and moving forward with new revisions of his scenario.

Frankly, if a scenario designer is NOT willing to do the above... then don't ask others to play test your design. It is not fair to have players invest their gaming time into testing designs if the designer has no intention to work with play testers and revise his scenarios. It also shows a lack of respect and common courtesy for other players?

Regards, - a willing and able play tester (provided!) :smoke:

**Mr Grumpy** · 03-04-2010, 07:52 AM,

(03-03-2010, 09:46 AM)mwest Wrote: Dear CS Scenario Designers:

I (as a CS player) greatly appreciate all the time and effort that goes into designing new scenarios. :)

I understand that you can't work on new scenario designs full time because of work, family, and other real life stuff. I know that many of you put in the time and effort because you want to see "good" and balanced CS scenarios for players. You believe, like me, that new additions and scenarios are the "life blood" that will keep CS players interested and the game platform moving forward for years. I thank you all for your efforts! :smoke:

But you, as a scenario designer, also have a responsibility to complete what you have begun. You must be willing to work with play testers and revise your scenario based on test report feedback. And be willing to continue to work through multiple revisions until a much better designed scenario emerges.

Play testers invest their gaming time and effort into assisting designers with their creations. I've helped play test designs... and am willing to continue to do so... provided the scenario designer is willing to do his part... which is play an active role in the scenario revision process by listening to play testers, communicating changes, and moving forward with new revisions of his scenario.

Frankly, if a scenario designer is NOT willing to do the above... then don't ask others to play test your design. It is not fair to have players invest their gaming time into testing designs if the designer has no intention to work with play testers and revise his scenarios. It also shows a lack of respect and common courtesy for other players?

Regards, - a willing and able play tester (provided!) :smoke:

This is the worst issue we have had at the H2H since i took over three years ago and the reason that i have tried to do regular "sweeps" of the designers to see if they are still active, but of course this takes up my spare time i would like to use improving the site in others ways, as all it takes is for a PM or Email to myself for a player to have his scenario removed i have to agree it indeed does show a lack of respect and common courtesy for other players. :(

Von Earlmann · 03-04-2010, 08:58 AM,

I will always accept criticism and suggestions for any scenarios I design provided they make sense. I used to send scenarios to H2H but found very little usefull input. Even had testers suggest I put units in a scenario that were not even in the time frame. I am not an anal retentive to historical accuracy but I do try for some sort of realism based on the time period.
Also, many testers do not ask what the intent of the scenario designer was and make off the wall suggestions. I will test when I have the time and I will make suggestions while asking if they fit in with the designers overall concept.

I am never offended if someone makes a suggestion ( reasonable) nor am I offended if the designer does not use my suggestions. I learned a long time ago there are many ways to look at things.

When I decide to design a scenario I do have certain things I want the scenario to show. If I can get it to do that I am happy.......if it is balanced also that is great.........if it isn't balanced that's ok too as long as I can see the design doing and showing what I had envisioned......if people play it that is great.......if they don't that's ok too because I designed what I wanted and the creative juices got to flow........I mean hell......you can't keep that stuff bottled up for too long :-)

VE

Larry Reese · 03-04-2010, 09:33 AM,

I concur with Earl. With the two designs I have now (and with all my others) I even include a Word document that goes into detail on the situation present in the scenario, the historical background, and why certain things were done, to try and short circuit the degree of off the wall feedback but still end up getting some. I take the good and disregard the inapplicable; but I ALWAYS appreciate the time people put into the scnearion testing and work hard to let them know that. I'm always open to criticism; if we aren't, how do we expect to improve anything?

LR

Montana Grizz · 03-04-2010, 02:12 PM,

I am play testing one of KKR's early war scenarios.

He provides an excellent description of the scenario from a historical stand point, but also provides some extremely helpful hints as to actual play.

The hints are only suggestions, but provide for some initial approaches to the game.

It's one of those scenarios that I would like to play several times so as to test different strategies.

Larry's mention of a word document is an excellent idea and may well forestall the inapplicable comment(s) and provide much more information than might otherwise be available to the tester (or is it testor)

Kool Kat · (This post was last modified: 03-04-2010, 09:37 PM by Kool Kat.)

(03-04-2010, 08:58 AM)Von Earlmann Wrote: I am never offended if someone makes a suggestion ( reasonable) nor am I offended if the designer does not use my suggestions. I learned a long time ago there are many ways to look at things.
VE

I make an assumption that when a designer uploads a scenario design into the H2H section... he does want suggestions, and feedback from play testing... or why bother with it? :chin:

Nor do I take offense if a designer does not want to incorporate play testers' suggestions into his scenario. It is his scenario, not the play testers' design.

What I do take issue with are designers who upload creations into the H2H section... and then think that somehow "magically" their design is going to get play tested with no other active involvement from them? And then don't bother to even communicate with play testers?

Again... if a game designer is going to behave in the above manner... please don't bother uploading into H2H... :(

Kool Kat · 03-04-2010, 11:42 PM,

(03-04-2010, 09:33 AM)Larry Reese Wrote: I take the good and disregard the inapplicable; but I ALWAYS appreciate the time people put into the scenario testing and work hard to let them know that. I'm always open to criticism; if we aren't, how do we expect to improve anything?

LR

A game designer who values feedback and communicates his appreciation to play testers will have folks willing to help test his design... and have others lining up to help play test his future designs? :chin:

A win-win "scenario" :whis:

Von Luck · 03-05-2010, 07:01 AM,

LOL Cool down a bit Mike yep there are designers who give no feedback etc but not all designers are like that ie Earl and Larry have posted and said so.I take your point on what your saying but its been put on the board that designers not willing to get feedback and listen to the playtesters should forget it.No offence mate hopefully you will cool down and still keep testing your work is most valued like all other playtesters.Think Ed and the rest of the H2H section which includes myself have come up with the idea that if the designer doesnt get involved then the scenario will be deleted and moved elsewhere.Myself im currently playtesting 2 scenarios with ample feedback from the designers which is great and their taking notes of what could be put right etc.Dont lose heart mate just have a little patience and things will work out ok.

Kool Kat · 03-05-2010, 08:00 AM,

(03-05-2010, 07:01 AM)Von Luck Wrote: LOL Cool down a bit Mike yep there are designers who give no feedback etc but not all designers are like that ie Earl and Larry have posted and said so.I take your point on what your saying but its been put on the board that designers not willing to get feedback and listen to the playtesters should forget it.No offence mate hopefully you will cool down and still keep testing your work is most valued like all other playtesters.Think Ed and the rest of the H2H section which includes myself have come up with the idea that if the designer doesnt get involved then the scenario will be deleted and moved elsewhere.Myself im currently playtesting 2 scenarios with ample feedback from the designers which is great and their taking notes of what could be put right etc.Dont lose heart mate just have a little patience and things will work out ok.

No worries John! :)

I guess it is more "disappointment" then "anger" with me with "some" designers... but certainly not throwing everyone into the same pot? :stir:

I'll continue to play test others' designs... and I'm sure that folks will continue to step forward to help test mine. cheers

BTW... have another "rough" design on the drawing board... but keeping it under wraps until I can get some of the sharp edges smoothed out! :eek1:

Again, many thanks to all play testers of Terror on Tarakan! Looks like that RS scenario will move out of H2H next week! :smoke:

Von Luck · 03-06-2010, 07:12 AM,

No probs Mike you were getting a bit heated there dont want to see you banned from the board mate.Some designers put forward a scenario on the H2H section leave it there and hopefully 2 month's later its up there as a H2H based scenario ok with their name in lights-oh i done that one.Ed has thought about this and this wont happen in the future.