AfrikaKorps heavy Arty

K K Rossokolski · 09-03-2009, 06:44 PM,

I have recently seen something on a DAK heavy arty organisation/concentration, made up of German (inc catured French guns) and Italian elements, which I think was situated, at least for a time SE of Tobruk. I just can't find it again. Can anyone advise?

Steel God · 09-07-2009, 11:58 AM,

Can you give a rough time frame? The composition of the Axis units in NA shifted like the sand dunes.

K K Rossokolski · 09-08-2009, 02:49 PM,

Thanks Paul.....Gazala battles May/June '41. May have been based at el Adem.

Steel God · 09-09-2009, 03:18 AM,

Well, el Adem was SE of Tobruk, which would have put it well behind the British lines for Gazala. It would have been a fair location for it to support the attack on Tobruk that followed after Gazala however.

I will have to check some stuff when I get home tonight, but I think you may be thinking of Grupper Bottcher, which if memory serves was an adhoc formation that grouped most of the PzArmee's artillery assets to support Grupper Cruwell in their feint attack along the coast road towards Tobruk at the start of Gazala. But I'll check it out and let you know.

Steel God · 09-09-2009, 11:04 AM,

Rod;

I'm not 100% certain this is what you're looking for, but Gruppe Bottcher, aka 104th Arko, was a concentration of artillery battalions to give weight to the Gruppe Cruwell feint along the coast road at the start of the Gazala battles. It's composition was as follows:

902nd comprised of 12 105L28 leFH18
364th comprised of 12 105L28 leFH18
528th comprised of 12 105L28 leFH18
533rd comprised of 12 105L28 leFH18
408th comprised of 12 150L30 sFH18

I see no indication that the unit had any other caliber guns assigned at that time, but the unit supporting it to the south was an Italian division (the 50th) which had 75 and 100mm Field guns in it's artillery regiment and would been available to lent support.

Additionally, I find no indication that Gruppe Bottcher participated in the final storming of the Tobruk fortress after Gazala, possible it could have been broken down and dispersed, or elsewhere (perhaps along the frontier or near Bardia).

I hope this helps, but I have not been meticulous in my research so don't consider this gospel. Not sure what your intent is with the data, maybe this is "close enough".

K K Rossokolski · 09-10-2009, 05:02 PM,

Thanks a lot, mate...getting close to it, I think. It was definitely an arty group or command, presumably at Army level, but the ref I saw...and still can't locate...clearly described it as a heavy arty formation......150mm and up. It included Italian heavy stuff, and some ex-French heavies,,150mm guns as I recall. I think it was a group named, as often the case in the Heer, after its commander.

K K Rossokolski · 09-10-2009, 05:09 PM,

Does 104 Arko ring a bell?

Steel God · 09-10-2009, 09:42 PM,

Rod, that's what I listed in post #5, 104th Arko. The details on the contents of the unit are taken from the HPS Game El Alamein '42, which includes the Gazala battles. Now, their research could be wrong, however their OOB work is usually first rate.

Steel God · 09-10-2009, 09:57 PM,

Here's a link that does not cite a source, but lists a much more extensive list for 104th Arko at Gazala, including guns not of German origin based on the caliber.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.p...6&t=104408

K K Rossokolski · 09-11-2009, 07:01 AM,

I saw that, but must not have read it properly, as I scanned and read only 105mm. I wonder if the Bottcher group was not in fact Arko 104. Certainly, with that link, you have answered my question, and I thank you muchly. Now, where on earth, in this house of ours , did I see the original reference?????

Once again, thanks a lot.