WSF: Weather in North Africa

~~Krak~~ · 08-31-2009, 10:12 AM,

Why does the Mud and Snow condition affect the Air Availability in the Arid zone? For ground units the weather condition is always Normal, but Air units are being adversely affected by poor weather conditions that are associated with Europe. Is this a deliberate design feature? I suspect it may just be an oversight. It has a significant affect on the game. For many months the weather state in Europe is Mud or Snow, this is translating to reducing air availability by up to 50% in the Arid zone for months. Can you shed any light on this Glenn? :chin:

jonnymacbrown · 09-01-2009, 02:45 AM,

Well, there are the famous Gibli winds in Libya that bring really hot weather and sand storms from the south. These winds are so powerful that they bring sand all the way to Europe as far north as Scotland; where the winds are known variously as the Foen in central and eastern Europe. These are summer winds, anytime between the equinox. J

jonnymacbrown · 09-01-2009, 04:46 AM,

The thing too about the summer months in Libya is that the heat can be regularly 120 F in the shade. Also those Gibli winds can last for weeks. J

~~Krak~~ · 09-01-2009, 09:15 AM,

I would love to see some sand storms in the desert. But mud and snow occur in the winter months (when the not available problem happens), not the summer, which is when the conditions you site occur.

Glenn Saunders · 09-01-2009, 02:22 PM,

Krak Wrote:Why does the Mud and Snow condition affect the Air Availability in the Arid zone? For ground units the weather condition is always Normal, but Air units are being adversely affected by poor weather conditions that are associated with Europe. Is this a deliberate design feature? I suspect it may just be an oversight. It has a significant affect on the game. For many months the weather state in Europe is Mud or Snow, this is translating to reducing air availability by up to 50% in the Arid zone for months. Can you shed any light on this Glenn? :chin:

I am not sure Michael - the first thing I would have to see a BTL file or rather two battle files - before and after which illustrated the problem before I could say whther this is a bug or a oversight.

Glenn

~~Krak~~ · 09-01-2009, 03:21 PM,

Glenn
I will get a couple of files for you to check out.

Dog Soldier · 09-02-2009, 03:15 AM,

FWIW,

Here is a link to the History of the 12AF in NA in 1942 after the Torch landings.

12AF, Torch & Victory in North Africa:Part VIII: 16-31 December 1942

The history talks about bomber flights being grounded in December for more than a week 12/19/42 - 12/29/42 due to bad weather.

The weather is not described. I am sure with some digging you will find there were periods in the winter when flying was no done due to weather in 1940 - 1941 in the North Africa.

North Africa is on the coast of the sea. Much of the combat zones were not all that far inland. Fog, storms or just lots of low cloud cover could stop air operations. I would not discount the winds either. Even modern aircraft will not fly near those sand storms, and I am not just talking about when they are visible. A lot of sand in the air can really mess up an aircraft engine. Not a thing you want when flying.

Dog Soldier

Dog Soldier · (This post was last modified: 09-02-2009, 03:28 AM by Dog Soldier.)

And here is another story of how miserable North Africa can be for flying in winter.

111th Reconnaissance Squadron
World War II Narrative History
Part VII: North Africa

I like this part....visibility is not the only issue.

On November 16 we moved to the air field at Tafaroui, which is just a few miles from Oran. By this time we were firmly convinced that the man who had written the weather section of the little "blue book" was a practical joker of the lowest order. The flat plains were seas of gumbo and the continuous downpours kept them that way. We pitched four-man pup tents to give us protection against the wind in all directions, and made floors out of ration-box cardboard and planking. Every man had himself a fox-hole within spitting distance. The mess section was set up on the lee side of a shrapnel-packed show and we were now eating hot steak and kidney pudding. No improvement. The area around the mess tent was ankle deep in mud and the man in the outfit who, at one time or another, did not take a header into that goo with his mess-kit contents pouring all over himself, is a fortunate character indeed.

With the ground ankle deep in mud an a consistency of "gumbo", I doubt any planes could take off or land.

Dog Soldier

~~Krak~~ · 09-02-2009, 06:47 AM,

Brian those examples you site are for a different weather zone. I am refering to the Arid weather zone. The area's were the Torch landings took place are not within the Arid zone. I should be more specific.

Weather in the Arid zone in TWIE is always clear for ground units. However when the weather in the other area's of the game changes to Mud or Snow conditions this is affecting air operations in the Arid zone, and I beleive that this is a bug or oversight.

I have no problem with storms putting units out of action but there are no storms in TWIE weather.

Mud and Snow weather conditions exist for months on end in TWIE. This means that air ops in the Arid zone are being hindered for months on end, not just a few days here and there.

The designers of TWIE quite rightly IMO have made the prevailing weather for the Arid zone clear for ground units. It should be the same for air units.

Storms, similar to how they occur in PzC would be nice but they are not in the game as yet.

Still your examples make an interesting read :)

Dog Soldier · 09-02-2009, 06:01 PM,

Michael,

So where is the Arid zone in WSF? I do not yet have this title. I was assuming it was all along the North Africa coast. As I mentioned, it might not be correct to have this area always clear for ground units.

The only case I can visualize where the ground units have clear visibility and air does not would be if low clouds covered an area. Maybe that is being represented? I can not talk to the length of time with the TWiE scale.

Dive bombers would not be effective in attacking since they might not be able to pull up after acquiring the target below the clouds. So these types of ground support planes would not fly.
Level bombers would have trouble navigating, always a problem in the desert due to the lack of landmarks. Hitting an enemy formation they can not see due to low clouds would be very low probability.

Air commanders would just wait out such conditions.

Dog Soldier