Supply Units

[Pegasus]

Re Supply units (Usually a Half-Filled Circle Icon).

I can't find it stated explicitly anywhere, but from observation, these units seem to work by using their large inventry of trucks to boost supply in the vicinity through local transport asset sharing. As a consequence, the only provide a benefit in turns they don't move.

Are my observations correct or are their other effects intrinsic to the unit type?

[Currahee]

From ver 1.01 Release Notes:

"Supply units (supply icon) now have the following effects: Supply units increase supply level in each supplied location that can trace a path no longer than the supply radius to the supply unit. Additionally, supply units multiply supply distribution to adjacent cooperative units by 1.5. There is no effect on unsupplied locations."

So, they act like HQ's, for adjacent units; plus give a boost (how much?) within the supply radius.

Also, in some scenarios, they are filled up with trucks; this is so, for example, in Holland, A Bridge Too Far....and the effect of the trucks does seem to be less, if the unit is moved.

[Weasel]

Since we are on the topic of supply, I was talking to Antoni about supply percentile and it effect (or lack of) on combat units. In particular when we played the ROAD TO MOSCOW scenarios my German units were able to execute full movement and attacks at 2% effective supply (well maybe not full combat strength, but enough to push the Soviets back).

What I figure is a unit with such low supply, lets say any unit below 20%, should become fixed and eligible to conduct defencive operations only until its supply increases. But because I was able to continue to move and attack the Soviet counter attack actually became a Soviet retreat. How effective could a combat unit be when only 2 men out of 10 has ammunition, food, or clothing?

Does anyone know why units in such low supply levels are not really adversely affected?

[Currahee]

Hi Weasel,

I can't disagree with your logic, but the way the system works, units in low supply are penalized only on combat power, not movement points, so it's necessary for the scenario designer to insure that units perpetually at zero supply (and 33% readiness) aren't still able to overwhelm their properly-supplied adversary. The easiest fix is usually to simply increase the force supply level or proficiency or supply radius or formation supply proficiency, or some combination of those, of the defender (in this case, the Russian); so that attacks by ill-supplied German units simply shatter. We actually have a large number of scenarios that need these kinds of adjustments, to play properly. So, this is fixable, but must be fixed in the scenario editor.

What has exacerbated this problem, is that many scenarios, especially the older ones, have low force supply levels for both sides; so both sides basically play the entire game, after the first move or so, on "empty". Then, proficiency becomes all, and the side with the highest proficiency simply pushes the other around. This is simply poor scenario design. In your example, though, the designer has to deal with both sides; if he simply increases the German force supply level, to achieve a realistic level of supply, it makes the game even more one-sided; that's why I say the real fix has to address the Russian, and specifically, why their units are so pathetically weak, that they can be pushed around by unsupplied German units.

Hope that helps!!

[Weasel]

Hey, thanks for the great and very informative reply. I admit I know little of the game engine, unlike SP, so when my starving Germans kick the crap out of the Russians I know something is amiss.

A very prime example of German units being forced static is in the book Blood Red Snow where time after again the author talks about how his unit was unable to react to the Russian thrusts, and how a couple of tanks with supply and fuel were able to save the day.

So yes, it is a problem and I am sure I am not the first to bring it up. I guess it would require a major code rewrite to fix it which just won't happen (but do the game designers know of it?).

That is were mirroring the scenarios evens things out which is probably the best fix of all.

Thanks once again!!!

[Antoni Chmielowski]

Me and Weasel had a blast playing the Road to Moscow series ! - we played ALL the battles.

I was Russians, Chris was the Germans and Chris beat me hands down in every battle !.:)

[ralphtrickey]

Does anyone know why units in such low supply levels are not really adversely affected?

My bet would be that it is the way it is at least partly because it would leave Elmer totally helpless.

[Currahee]

I wouldn't bet against Ralph on that!

[Pegasus]

Interesting comments - I agree that the possibility of endless movement without consequence can be a problem, especialy for the defending side when there is a large map/low unit density.

However, it appears (anecdotaly) to me that units with no supply are less likely to continue attacking beyond one combat round, and they are more likely to evaporate when attacking.

From observations in the current game I'm playing, supply units only appear to offer benefit at the end of turns where thay haven't moved.

[Currahee]

That should be pretty easy to check on a test bed; one with a supply unit within supply radius; one without. I'll try to do this weekend, if someone doesn't beat me to it.