The spirit of the game...

Der Kuenstler · 10-14-2008, 04:27 AM,

One of the Blitz ROE under section 14 says:

"The Blitz considers any 'stunt/method' that goes beyond the spirit of the game to be cheating..."

How would you define the "spirit of the game"?

Jobu88 · 10-14-2008, 04:42 AM,

In other words, things that are "gamey?" Hmmmm this is always an interesting discussion -- is that tactic gamey or is it fair play? Is it a "stunt?"

I would define the spirit of the game pretty loosely as "anything that might reasonably have been done by my units in real life in this situation."

Kelen · 10-14-2008, 05:18 AM,

Jobu88 Wrote:In other words, things that are "gamey?" Hmmmm this is always an interesting discussion -- is that tactic gamey or is it fair play? Is it a "stunt?"

I would define the spirit of the game pretty loosely as "anything that might reasonably have been done by my units in real life in this situation."

Very difficult to come up with any hard and fast rules on this one, as what 1 person may consider 'gamey' another may feel is perfectly ok.

You're always going to have those that buy unrealistic unit picks, (those 6 crack King Tigers), but these are manageable by setting ground rules.

As for what might reasonably have been done in real life, hmm what about;

- using vehicle crews and out of ammo snipers as scouts? or,
- shelling an area or building where you know your captured troops are in order to try and deny you opponent the extra points for capturing them rather them killing them?

The problem is is that I'm sure you can find numerous examples of this actually happening in real life, (ok, calling in friendly fire on prisoners to deny your enemy information rather than points, but the end is the same).

Do the mods have any examples of what they might consider a 'stunt' or 'gamey'. After all, if 1 person is thinkng of accusing another of 'cheating' it might be handy to have an idea of what they think.

Jobu88 · 10-14-2008, 05:49 AM,

Quote:Very difficult to come up with any hard and fast rules on this one, as what 1 person may consider 'gamey' another may feel is perfectly ok.

Yes, indeed. There have been a bunch of threads in the past on what is or isn't gamey & not much agreement as I recall.

Quote:Very difficult to come up with any hard and fast rules on this one, as what 1 person may consider 'gamey' another may feel is perfectly ok.

You're always going to have those that buy unrealistic unit picks, (those 6 crack King Tigers), but these are manageable by setting ground rules.

I agree, unit purchase is not what I would call "gamey" even though it can make for a short and unenjoyable game if he's got 6 Crack KTs on an open map with one flag. And of course, he won't have much infantry if he spent all his points on those KTs. So I don't view that as gamey.

Sending a 50mm mortar who's out of ammo on a suidical advance just to draw fire and locate the enemy. That's gamey.

Ratzki · 10-14-2008, 07:31 AM,

I think that because it is a game, there is nothing that is gamey. Send the 50mm mortar ahead, to scout and cause some havok, well, I as the other player should be able to handle that. I have marched a whole platoon of ammo-less mortars that were out of LOS to give the other player something to think about. I know that in real-life this would not happen but this is not real life. Now with all the little things that can be gamey, all one can really do is find players that play the same as yourself and avoid the ones that look for offhand advantages within the game. I try to discuss things with my opponenet beforehand to try to eliminate things that I do not like. I have a small text file that I send that outlines things that I will not play and those that I like. The other guy has the chance to read it and agree or not, up to him, I don't ever feel that thyere are not enough opponents for me to choose from. That being said, there are a few things that I find gamey, but I have just learnt to deal with them and after the game decide if I will play another one with this same guy.

JasonC · (This post was last modified: 10-15-2008, 10:54 AM by JasonC.)

Put all your guns 5 meters below a sharp crestline so 98 out of 100 shots directed at them hit the hill in front, while they get to fire straight through the hill.

Protect the single exposed flank of your thick-front uberarmor with a bottomless chasm called the board edge. Forever. Every game.

Never take any vehicle that can be penetrated from the front by the standard AP weapon in the enemy arsenal. Ever.

Split every squad you have, always, at set up and maintained throughout, doubling micromanagement and absorbing enemy ammo.

Never take any artillery below 150mm caliber.

Take 5 times as many cheap guns as MGs on defense, and as many as you have squads.

Of course it is possible to push broken aspects of the game so hard fights aren't about anything remotely to do with the actual war. If your opponent does any of the above, tell him to cut it out. If he won't, blackball him. Life is too short to put up with freaks.

Lord Bane · (This post was last modified: 10-15-2008, 11:08 AM by Lord Bane.)

Jason C said:

Quote:Never take any vehicle that can be penetrated from the front by the standard AP weapon in the enemy arsenal. Ever.

I disagree with this statement somewhat. The only way this is possible is to strictly adhere to the Red Wolf armor rules or similar rules. After playing several hundred games I can tell you that I can spot a Red Wolf player with ease. The problem with Red Wolf rules are that they train you that any of your armor can go up face to face with any of the enemy armor. It teaches you that it is pointless to maneuver. Simply line your tanks up with the enemies and blast away! But then when a Panther or Tiger appears in a game these guys throw a fit! Because they try to line up face to face with them and they get blown away. I think Red Wolf is a handi-cap to learning to fight armor. Of course that being said I think there are a couple exceptions. KVs in 41 or Tigers in 42 are both un-stoppable for the most part and players should discuss their use prior to early war games.

Combat Wombat · 10-15-2008, 11:19 AM,

Sending a 50mm mortar who's out of ammo on a suidical advance just to draw fire and locate the enemy. That's gamey.
[/quote]

ahhh but then again, if you play as the Russians, you can send ALL your troops on suicidal pointless charges and you would be emulating Ol' Stalin himself ... ;)

Kelen · 10-16-2008, 07:36 PM,

Combat Wombat Wrote:Sending a 50mm mortar who's out of ammo on a suidical advance just to draw fire and locate the enemy. That's gamey.

ahhh but then again, if you play as the Russians, you can send ALL your troops on suicidal pointless charges and you would be emulating Ol' Stalin himself ... ;)
[/quote]

But in that case they should all be 'conscript' or 'green' and only armed with 1 rifle between 2, and 5 bullets each!!

Extraordinarius · 10-17-2008, 11:05 AM,

The "spirit of the game", hm. A dubious concept. In the real world, there was not a single Panther in Italy from October of '43 to February of '44. CMAK renders this in Standard Rarity as "+5%" for the PzKw Vd in November of '43 or the PzKw Va in January of '44. But because there were so few Tigers and Panthers in Italy, the U.S. Army sent no M36 tank destroyers to the country. These, of course, are completely unavailable. Just a few of may places in which availability and victory conditions have been fiddled by the designers to favor the Germans.

BTW, I feel that this was a correct decision by Battlefront. If your game does not allow adolescent panzer enthusiasts to drive their Tigers to victory in spite of quite modest tactical skills, you will not sell as many of the game.