6th PzD - OOB Question - Stalingrad

Volcano Man · (This post was last modified: 08-21-2008, 02:20 PM by Volcano Man.)

Interesting. Perhaps since this was a newly formed unit (I thought it was formed in Nov?) it received its full compliment of 31 vehicles? If that is the case then the seemingly standard 11,10,10 compliment of vehicles for each company could be used. On the other hand, how many Tiger tanks would have been present in 1.&2./s.Pz.Abt.503? At first glance I was thinking 15 vehicles per company but I think the number at this time might have been 10 per company(?).

Richrd · 08-21-2008, 10:40 PM,

Each company had 10 tigers and 11 Pz IIIn. The Stab had 2 tigers and 5 Pz IIIn.

von Waldenburg · (This post was last modified: 08-22-2008, 12:23 AM by von Waldenburg.)

In case it might help... the stugs appears to have reached the LVII PzKorps area (again from Raus' memories) after the armored battle of Verkhniy-Kumskiy that is between 13-16 Dec, 1942. I havent read him mentioning wether it was a batallion or two, he states there were 42 machines as R.Bancroft sharply pointed out. So it could easily be two 21 stug Bns or some reinforced companies, I'm not sure of this sorry.

Good luck with your efforts in building scns.

regards
Artur

Richrd · 08-22-2008, 09:13 AM,

I'm not sold. There were not a whole lot of StuG battalions and most of them can be accounted for. Why would a brand new battalion be formed according to a TOE which had already been discarded? It took the 6th Pz a month to get to s. Russia. So the 228th, once the orders had been issued for it's formation, lets just say on the very first day of november, had to assemble it's personnel and equipment, shake out it's command staff, familiarise itself with it's powerful new equipment, brief the crews on new tactics, provision itself, entrain, and chug all the way across to the easternmost extreme of Hitlers diminishing empire. It seems to me that this will take a little while.

Richrd · 08-22-2008, 09:24 AM,

You know there were some of the Sturminfanteriegeschütz 33 outside the pocket. 23rd Pz had some in early 43. Thats an assault gun.

Wien1938 · 08-22-2008, 10:13 AM,

The other possibility is that the 228.StuG.Abt absorbed the remnants of some of the StuG.Abts caught in Stalingrad (field workshops repairs, replacement vehicles/crews etc). This is only supposition but I believe it remains possible.

Volcano Man · (This post was last modified: 08-23-2008, 03:56 AM by Volcano Man.)

Richrd Wrote:I'm not sold. There were not a whole lot of StuG battalions and most of them can be accounted for. Why would a brand new battalion be formed according to a TOE which had already been discarded? It took the 6th Pz a month to get to s. Russia. So the 228th, once the orders had been issued for it's formation, lets just say on the very first day of november, had to assemble it's personnel and equipment, shake out it's command staff, familiarise itself with it's powerful new equipment, brief the crews on new tactics, provision itself, entrain, and chug all the way across to the easternmost extreme of Hitlers diminishing empire. It seems to me that this will take a little while.

This discussion is getting confusing because we don't seem to be putting the entire position in one post, rather we are spreading them out in comments.

Are you saying that you are not sold on the fact that the StuG.Abt.228 was there in December, or you are not sold on the idea that the 228 had <= 31 vehicles, thus, not more than one StuG.Abt? Or both? Just trying to clarify. :)

Richrd · 08-23-2008, 09:25 AM,

Major Koch and his 40 odd assault guns smack down the Russians outside of Kotelnikovo. The source for this is Raus, and, well, he oughta know. The 228th formed in Nov in WK III. I compared this to other StuG battalions. The 232nd formed in October and "completed it's formation" in december. The 236th formed in march 43 and "received it's baptism of fire" maybe sometime in June. They're all about the same. The commander of the 228th was Hauptmann Malachowski. Oak Leaves on 6 march 43, and replaced in command on the 9th of that month. I think the 228th is out of contention.
But here is an interesting note. The 232nd was originally issued tropical kit for deployment in Afrika. However it was alerted on Christmas eve, moved out at once and was delivered to the Kalmuck step. It was unloaded at "Sailz" which I've never heard of. I think they meant Salsk. ".....immmediately went into action. This rapid operation had the objective of relieving the 6th army and to support it's breakout." This is about New years, Little Saturn had already begun, Hoth was being pushed back and Paulus' fate was already sealed. I don't think there was a StuG battalion with Raus before Christmas. There must have been something, but I don't know what, yet. Since there are about a million S42 OOB details to flesh out yet, I'm going to forget about this one for awhile, and hope it turns up while I'm searching out something else.
Lastly, Lt colonel von Pannwitz of Cossack cavalry fame was in Kotelnikovo on the 27th of Novemeber. Witnessing the attack on Raus he gathered all runners he could find from a nearby workshop, swept around the Russian formation and attacked the artillery from the rear. Six tanks crewed by mechanics. Will that do?