St42 Uranus Retreat

[FLG]

I am currently planning Uranus retreat campaign as the germans. I have been looking at supply sources. There are 4 axis sources in this variant, in the same locations as in the standard campaign. Two on the western edge and one at the airfields at Potomnik and Gumrak. In the standard camapign these airfield sources would be inside the kessel after it formed.

Is this correct for the retreat variant?

Given I am now allowed to retreat behind the Don, these airfield sources are now redundant and to avoid having my entire army cut off I must maintain contact with the western edge of the map. This relies on the Rumanians being able to stop the Russians from breaking through before the Panzers get there. Which is just about possible.

But wouldn't the Luftwaffe have transferred supply operations to airfields behind the Don?

Now I sit in a salient extending about 100 miles from the western edge of the map to the Don, where all the VP hexes are.

Now, when the LVII pzK arrives to rescue us, it starts at the southern edge of the map, isolated as the two remaining supply sources are inside the tenous salient I hold extending from the west. Or am I expected to also extend my lines 150 miles to the south as well. Using what, Rumanians?

Wouldn't it be sensible if the LVII was to start over to the west of the map as that is likely to be in direct communcation with a supply source when lines have stabalized.

Am I missing something here? Has anybody played this and found it all to be OK?

I would appreciate your thoughts on this Glenn. Would it be with my while tweaking a few things in the campaign before we start. Moving the Pitomnik and Gumrak supply sources and possibly the LVII PzK starting location.

[Glenn Saunders]

I am currently planning Uranus retreat campaign as the germans. I have been looking at supply sources. There are 4 axis sources in this variant, in the same locations as in the standard campaign. Two on the western edge and one at the airfields at Potomnik and Gumrak. In the standard camapign these airfield sources would be inside the kessel after it formed.

Is this correct for the retreat variant?

Yes - I believe so!

Given I am now allowed to retreat behind the Don, these airfield sources are now redundant and to avoid having my entire army cut off I must maintain contact with the western edge of the map. This relies on the Rumanians being able to stop the Russians from breaking through before the Panzers get there. Which is just about possible.

Well it will be a lot easier in the _03 Retreat CG than it will be in the _01 main CG. In the flater we built in extra FIXED commands which make a head long retreat from the Volga hard enough (I hope) that a player won't opt for this plan.

However, we recognized that some players might like to try it and see how it would have worked. That is completely disengage from the Russians on the first turn and run like hell.

Give the time that has passed since this game was published, I cannot recall all the details - but I don't see any reason to have messed with the Supply situation at all.

But wouldn't the Luftwaffe have transferred supply operations to airfields behind the Don?

Honestly - no idea. All I was doing was UNDOING the conditions which I had set up to prevent the Germans from disengaging.

Now I sit in a salient extending about 100 miles from the western edge of the map to the Don, where all the VP hexes are.

Now, when the LVII pzK arrives to rescue us, it starts at the southern edge of the map, isolated as the two remaining supply sources are inside the tenous salient I hold extending from the west. Or am I expected to also extend my lines 150 miles to the south as well. Using what, Rumanians?

Wouldn't it be sensible if the LVII was to start over to the west of the map as that is likely to be in direct communcation with a supply source when lines have stabalized.[/quote]

Hey - maybe you can make your own variation where you adjust other condition. My intent was to make the main CG where the Germans couldn't do "the smart thing" and retreat because of Hitlers orders.

All I did was - as the note at the end of the scn overview say:

"The scenario concept removes a number of large objectives east of the Don River and reduces the victory levels accordingly."

To this end the Vic levels inthe retreat Scn range from 12000 to 25000 as opposed to 20000 to 32000. That is quite a bit I figure allowing the Germans to give up that many points.

I guess what it didn't say was I also removed seven commands to FIX German units on the 8 and 10 am turns for 19 Nov too. So the German can Run knowning in hindsite what might happen if history repeated itself.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this Glenn.

Well, you have them.

Would it be with my while tweaking a few things in the campaign before we start. Moving the Pitomnik and Gumrak supply sources and possibly the LVII PzK starting location.

If you would like - sure - this was not an oversight as far as I can see. I was simply permitting the Germans to retreat and not penalizing them for walking away from the objectives on the Volga.

Glenn

[cavalry corps]

Badly thought out supply hexes are a right pain . I have found that in all recent PZC games the campaigns have various issues that need sorting out
In my MG44 game I have isolated one of the US divisions by ( accidently ) taking their hex . Thats silly .
Supply hexes should be a bit more widespread

Michael

[cavalry corps]

Actually i was thinking more of the isolation issues not supply sorry

Michael

[FLG]

Actually i was thinking more of the isolation issues not supply sorry

Michael

That is the same problem in this case I think.

[Bushido]

FLG,

so you will be cannon fodder

[FLG]

FLG,

so you will be cannon fodder

I seem to be on the receiving end in all my campaigns at the moment. I have just played the allies on Crete, I am playing the Russians in Typhoon and now the Axis at Stalingrad. It's all Karma I suppose for getting to play the Russians at Minsk.

Still, if I can survive another 100 turns or so at Moscow I can hopefully start to take the initiative.

[Bushido]

FLG,

just friendly teasing my friend.
I only play allies. And I mostly play full campaigns.
I am also playing the full Typhoon as russkie a great game indeed and full
of strategy. I think it is more than one way to play the russkies in that one.
The full Stalingrad I have not played.

[FLG]

I usually play Russians as well. However, for Stalingrad I am more experienced than my opponent so he gets the T34's and I get the Rumanian R-1's. Saying that he can roundly kick my bottom at TOAW so when he gets into the swing of things it promises to be hard game

[Bushido]

I have not played Stalingrad myself. But I have understood that the german
Panzer div. have a heavy punch in that one. So force concentrate them
and decide place and time where to strike.

TOAW and Panzer campaigns is different systems. I also have TOAW but
never play it. For me it doesn't tick.....sorry.