Flag Talk

[Der Kuenstler]

This is mostly for the players who aren't familiar with the basic rules for victory flags:

Victory points in a battle are awarded for the following:
1) Flags held
2) Enemy casualties
3) Prisoners taken

There are two kinds of static flags - the big ones are worth 300 points and the small ones are worth 100 points. Notice that NO POINTS are given to either side for a neutral (white) flag.

You do not need to sit your men directly on top of the flag to control it. Instead, each flag has an invisible "zone of control" around it. This area of control is 80 meters if your units have LOS to the flag, and 50 meters if they do not have LOS to the flag.

The closer your units are to the flag, the more control they have over it. Also the stronger your unit is, the more control it has. (Strength is roughly equal to the units purchase cost.) It usually takes a full strength squad or a tank to exert control over a flag.

Control is not relative. If one side has one decent unit in the area, the other side can have 30 or more units in the area but will not be able to claim control of the flag. (I tested this myself in the editor - a single Russian recon squad, out of comand, hiding in the woods - kept a flag neutralized even though there was a platoon of four fully armed tigers gathered all around it. A half squad didn't neutralize it, though, and neither did a single sharpshooter. A healthy squad seems to be the smallest size of influence.)

Prisoners, ex-prisoners, forward observers, and unarmed vehicles exert no control over flags. Crews do, though, if there are enough of them. Out of ammo vehicles do not influence the flag. Neither do panicked or broken units. The basic rule is, you must be able to shoot to exert control.

Now, most of that was right out of the manual. How does it all play out? I recently finished a couple of games where knowing those rules made a big difference. In one game, my opponent had three T34s pointing at the flag and 3-4 squads of infantry in the woods compared to my hiding Platoon HQ and maybe one decent squad left. At games end, however, the flag remained German. This is because One of his T34s was about 100m away, and the other two were each about 85m away - outside the range of influence. His infantry were in the woods about 60 meters from the flag, but, since they did not have LOS to the flag, they had no influence either. They needed to be less than 50m away without LOS.

In the other game I managed to neutralize an important flag. My opponent had a Panther nearby, a HQ within 60 meters and a squad sitting right on the flag in some tall pines. I had a sniper hiding in the same pines about 6m from them. However, the sniper was out of ammo, so he did not influence the flag. I did have three SMG squads at treeline about 60m from the flag. These guys had LOS to the flag and were able to neutralize it. The threatening enemy Panther did not play a factor, as he was parked about 90m from the flag. (10m outside the circle of influence.)

There are two dependable ways you can get points. Holding a flag or inflicting casualties. (prisoners are a crapshoot) Now say you get to within 50m of a 100 pt flag in a clearing - don't charge out there and lose 100 pts worth of men trying to take it. Just stay in the sphere of influence and NEUTRALIZE the flag, and then let your opponent run out there and get shot up if he wants to.

A good strategy might be:
1) CONTROL the flags closest to you in best cover.
2) NEUTRALIZE the flags that are between you and win the firefight
3) AVOID the little 100 point flag on his side that would cost you 500 points to take.

[cillmhor]

Thanks for the tips, kind of knew about the strength/value aspect of controlling flags from experienc, but I was not aware of the ZOC distances and the LOS/ammo issues. Great stuff.

Cheers

Alasdair

[Koen]

good post

[PoorOldSpike]

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=39851

[PoorOldSpike]

FROM AN ACTUAL GAME






CONCLUSION - Never take flag ownership for granted

[Koen]

thx guys...this has been bothering for some time now....

[PoorOldSpike]

http://www.the-proving-grounds.com/tip_r...ml?sku=368

http://www.the-proving-grounds.com/tacti...ml?sku=244

[Der Kuenstler]

POS did a great job as usual of illustrating this post - thanks!

To add a little zest to your QBs, here are some flag ideas I've tried. Flags can change the tone and strategy of a vanilla meeting engagement significantly. A way to place flags in interesting places is by using imported maps from the net which I sometimes do. You can then set the values of the flags and place them where you want in the editor first.

For example, If you don't like the flag rush meeting engagement, try importing a map into your 3000 pt battle with maybe two or three 100 point flags in it - that way the flags are not as essential to victory. (The computer will not add flags or move flags on a map that is imported with existing flags.)

Or if you want a bloody slugfest, stack 1000 points worth of flags all on one rocky hill and try to be the last man standing on it.

You could also try a meeting engagement like this: import a long, fairly wide map and place the flags at the end of it. Then put both setup zones on one side in the editor (out of LOS of each other - the computer will not add setup zones of ones are already existing.) Now you must get to the flag by going parallel to each other and can harass each other on the way.

If you want no flags, import a map with one 100 point flag on it which is on an island 100 meters from all access. The computer will not add any more flags - voila - your score will be based on casualties alone.

[Weasel]

I just finished a game where I held the flag and was clearly controlling the battle, yet the flag remained neutral and I lost because I was aggressive and forced the issues losing about 170 men to my opponents 90, and 2 vehicles to his 1. My opponent had units in the sphere so no one controlled the flag.

Don't you think this way of doing flags negates the point of attacking and holding an objective. What is the sense if, like you stated above, you can sit a HQ unit within 50m and force the flag neutral while the other person has a company in the area. What is the point of flags then?, might as well just play a battle of attrition instead.

[Splork]

I just finished a game where I held the flag and was clearly controlling the battle, yet the flag remained neutral and I lost because I was aggressive and forced the issues losing about 170 men to my opponents 90, and 2 vehicles to his 1. My opponent had units in the sphere so no one controlled the flag.

Don't you think this way of doing flags negates the point of attacking and holding an objective. What is the sense if, like you stated above, you can sit a HQ unit within 50m and force the flag neutral while the other person has a company in the area. What is the point of flags then?, might as well just play a battle of attrition instead.

I think the advantage is that it makes you truly secure the flag. For instance, take the case of a flag on a ridge. If flag ownership were just determined by relative force strength in a flag's zone of control, you'd end up with both guys trying to pack their men close to the flag on their side of the ridge, with no incentive to root out the other. This way, it makes you really clear out the area around the flag and attack through the flag, rather than just try to pack men onto your side of it.

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If you want no flags, import a map with one 100 point flag on it which is on an island 100 meters from all access. The computer will not add any more flags - voila - your score will be based on casualties alone.

The problem I've always found with no flag games is that there's no incentive to move.
Everyone just squats in the bushes waiting for the other guy to expose himself (that sentence is not at all iffy, if you read it in context).

The first guy to move usually dies, and loses, because of the way CM figures scores based on casualty points relative to the total casualties of both sides.