P39 Scenarios in Scenario Database

[Steel God]

While reporting a game result today I noticed that the scenario database has what are essentially duplicate entries for almost all of the scenarios.  The game offers every scenario as scenario ABS - Allied AI or ABC - Axis AI, and for our purposes here at the Blitz we really only need scenario ABC, because this community doesn't play with itself, or if we do, we don't report it on the ladder.  Leaving the double entries could result in a watering down of the ratings potentially making it harder for folks who might want to try and built a balanced tournament say by utilizing the databases records.  A quick scroll through seemed like everyone reports against the first listed scenario in each case so cleaning it up shouldn't be time consuming.  

Or maybe it's all just my OCD showing itself?

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

I think it is more of a challenge to find someone who is not OCD. War Gamers, anyway. :)

[Dog Soldier]

Hi Steel God.
OCD is my SOP.

I made those entries for Poland 39. In discussions with RickyB we both felt including all scenarios would be best. Players will choose to play any scenario they agree upon. There is nothing to stop that from happening.

While there appears to be no differences between the designated HTH and versus AI only scenarios, in play testing Poland 39, I felt there were subtle differences. 

The primary difference is when the scenario is designated for Axis AI, it uses a different PDT file, the one with the name *_entrenchments. You will find the entrenchments have lower values in these scenarios than vs the Polish AI. The values for bridge building are also lower. In some cases the VP requirements are less as well.
 
The scenarios for Axis AI as HTH possible but with a bias towards the Germans and hence good for novices etc.

Bottom line, players could choose any scenario to play. I and RickyB felt we did not want to have to add scenarios to the DB on a request only basis later.

Hope this explains the reason why all scenarios were included in the Blitz DB.

Dog Soldier

[Steel God]

I think it is more of a challenge to find someone who is not OCD.  War Gamers, anyway.  :)

 - point well taken

[Steel God]

Hi Steel God.
OCD is my SOP.

I made those entries for Poland 39. In discussions with RickyB we both felt including all scenarios would be best. Players will choose to play any scenario they agree upon. There is nothing to stop that from happening.

While there appears to be no differences between the designated HTH and versus AI only scenarios, in play testing Poland 39, I felt there were subtle differences. 

The primary difference is when the scenario is designated for Axis AI, it uses a different PDT file, the one with the name *_entrenchments. You will find the entrenchments have lower values in these scenarios than vs the Polish AI. The values for bridge building are also lower. In some cases the VP requirements are less as well.
 
The scenarios for Axis AI as HTH possible but with a bias towards the Germans and hence good for novices etc.

Bottom line, players could choose any scenario to play. I and RickyB felt we did not want to have to add scenarios to the DB on a request only basis later.

Hope this explains the reason why all scenarios were included in the Blitz DB.

Dog Soldier

Whoa - since I didn't see any scenarios marked as H2H play (all are either marked Allied AI, Axis AI, or either AI) are you essentially saying that if player A and B sit down and play a scenario marked Allied or Axis AI, the entrenchment values could be different between the two games?

[Dog Soldier]

Familiarity breeds familiarity?

When looking at the scenario descriptions and having play tested over several months all the HTH with a great player I have known for decades,  many of the scenarios, I know which scenarios were HTH recommended and which were not.
My bad.

Yes, the HTH designation does not show in the scenario list.

  Poland 39 scenario List Page.jpg (Size: 21.17 KB / Downloads: 2)
It does show in the scenario description once clicked on in the list.

  Poland 39 Scenario Desciption.jpg (Size: 74.06 KB / Downloads: 2)
The vast majority of the scenarios for HTH are the "versus Allied AI" and as I explained above the "versus Axis AI" are majority meant for novices to play HTH because of the PDT changes etc. in my previous post in this thread. There are two or three exceptions in all the scenarios for Poland 39.

When creating all these scenarios in the DB, I saved time by copying the scenario title for the listing page input line and the description on the description input.

  Poland 39 Scenario Desciption in the game engine.jpg (Size: 17.64 KB / Downloads: 2)
I assume most players choose their scenarios from the game listing in the menu rather than from the Blitz DB. However, you have a point that when posting a game result, someone will have forgotten which version they chose to play?

Therefore, I nominate Steel God to edit the scenario lists for Poland 39 and add the HTH designation to the list where it appears in the scenario description. Or wait until I have a hour or so to do it. Maybe in a month or two as RL has me in a bind just to keep up with gaming.

Dog Soldier

[Dog Soldier]

Steel God Wrote:
Whoa - since I didn't see any scenarios marked as H2H play (all are either marked Allied AI, Axis AI, or either AI) are you essentially saying that if player A and B sit down and play a scenario marked Allied or Axis AI, the entrenchment values could be different between the two games?

The short answer is yes. Take a look and see.

Dog Soldier

[Steel God]

Steel God Wrote:
Whoa - since I didn't see any scenarios marked as H2H play (all are either marked Allied AI, Axis AI, or either AI) are you essentially saying that if player A and B sit down and play a scenario marked Allied or Axis AI, the entrenchment values could be different between the two games?

The short answer is yes. Take a look and see.

Dog Soldier

I did look yesterday and saw what you were referring to. I "get it" now - but must say it was an odd way of doing things, at least from my PBEM point of view.