P39 Question for Arkan and Akilpio

[Steel God]

Gents - I noticed you just posted a game result for the 158 Turn P39 CG - the version with no German Reserves due to a French attack in the Saar and complete Polish Mobilization at start - and your notes say the Poles had zero chance.  I have an additional question for you, when you started this game were the German at start forces at 80% strength or 100% strength?  I realize that may sound like an odd question but the game was released with the starting forces below strength and then changed to full strength with the first patch a few days later, so if you started your game within the first day or two of the game being for sale you may have started at 80% for the Germans.

I ask for research purposes - I seriously want to see this CG be a viable one and it's clear from early reports (including my own on going game) that the victory conditions are entirely too easy for the Germans to achieve (similar to the F40 CG).  

Thanks for your thoughts.

[akilpio]

I decided to concede the game after only 25 turns of play. My opponent Arkan is a very skilled player and he played very aggressively. I was occasionally able to cause some heavy losses to his forward units, but the overwhelming superiority of the German forces in mobility and fire power made it a very desperate battle from the very beginning. I guess this is historically correct but felt it wasn´t much fun to play the Poles. I tried to retreat as fast as possible to be able to create a coherent front later on but that proved to be impossible. I decided to give up when I noticed that almost the whole southern front would be cut off within a couple of turns. We ended the game in such an early phase that I really can´t say much about the victory conditions, but I guess a more skilled player might have a some chances with the Poles. If this is played as pbem the more experienced player should take the Polish side.

[Arkan]

Hello Steel god and Akilpio.
The German units were at 100% but I don’t think that if they were at 80%, it would have changed something.
I am Polish and it hurts me to see how meaningless the Polish deployment was. The defense of the border by a thin line of units that sometimes had no connection between them in anticipation of a hypothetical French attack was monumental stupidity.
We played the most favorable version for the Poles and, moreover, I imposed on myself an additional difficulty by not looking at the Polish deployment before starting our game. Despite this, and despite the very good level of play of Akilpio, the Poles had no chance. I think that the location of the VPs has no impact, because the German player can encircle and destroy the Polish army near the borders, leaving it then free to occupy all the territory.

Here are some suggestions that could give the Poles a chance. These are of course alternative visions of history:

- deploy the Poles along the Vistula with only cover forces on the border

- leave the deployment as it is but bring in little by little, from the first round, the Soviets as allies

[Steel God]

Thank you both for the comments.

I don't think I can seriously consider the idea of the Soviets as Allies for the Poles though.  The bad blood between the two nations stretched way back, and Polish High Command considered war with Russia much more likely than war with German throughout much of the Interwar years.  

My reading so far indicates to me that the forward deployment by the Poles was part of their "Shield Strategy"; they envisioned the war being fought in a like manner to the Russo-Polish war in the 1920s, with pockets of forces maneuvering around fortified positions to conduct aggressive offensive operations.  The German advantage in mobility, which as you experienced, is tremendous, doomed that strategy from the outset.

[Arkan]

I don't think I can seriously consider the idea of the Soviets as Allies for the Poles though.  The bad blood between the two nations stretched way back, and Polish High Command considered war with Russia much more likely than war with German throughout much of the Interwar years.  

But in the version we have played with Akilpio, the soviets are on polish side. They just start to cross the border the 17th september. But i agree that a cooperation between soviets and poles is totally impossible from a historical point of view.


Maybe someone could make a scenario of a war between russia and poland in 1939. That could be interesting and certainly more balanced.

[Steel God]

I don't think I can seriously consider the idea of the Soviets as Allies for the Poles though.  The bad blood between the two nations stretched way back, and Polish High Command considered war with Russia much more likely than war with German throughout much of the Interwar years.  

But in the version we have played with Akilpio, the soviets are on polish side. They just start to cross the border the 17th september. But i agree that a cooperation between soviets and poles is totally impossible from a historical point of view.


Maybe someone could make a scenario of a war between russia and poland in 1939. That could be interesting and certainly more balanced.

Oh?  I missed that point, my apologies.  

I confess a Soviet invasion of Western Poland without a German invasion in the West would be much closer to even.  I think the Poles would win that one!!