Several Moscow 42 Questions

76mm · (This post was last modified: 12-02-2012, 02:10 PM by 76mm.)

I am most impressed by the well-done designer notes for Moscow 42 but have a couple of questions about some of its statements about features of the OOB. In particular:

--"All values have used an updated McNamara system that was standardized across Ed William’s alternate mods of all Panzer Campaign games." Huh? What does this mean?

--"The replacement flag in the OB is used in place of the recovery loss parameter. This is to allow more equivalent replacements in scenarios while having an impact from low supply." Same question...

Strela · 11-09-2012, 10:06 PM,

(11-09-2012, 03:13 PM)76mm Wrote: I am most impressed by the well-done designer notes for Moscow 42 but have a couple of questions about some of its statements about features of the OOB. In particular:

--"All values have used an updated McNamara system that was standardized across Ed William’s alternate mods of all Panzer Campaign games." Huh? What does this mean?

--"The replacement flag in the OB is used in place of the recovery loss parameter. This is to allow more equivalent replacements in scenarios while having an impact from low supply." Same question...

Hi, as the guy who wrote the notes, I am probably best to answer these :)

The McNamara system is a standardized set of values for firepower, movement and assault values for units and vehicles in the PzC world. They were originally determined by Ed Williams and distributed in a set of mods that covered the first 18 games that were released. From Kharkov '43, John Tiller decided that these values should become the standard for all future releases. Prior to that units in the officially released games were different from game to game. So, in summary the game uses the same values as the very popular mod that most of the community plays.

For the replacement question there is two different systems in game. The one used is very simple with all units using a percentage that is in the order of battle and tied to the individual formations. It only has one modifier, is the unit have supply above 50%? If below 50% then it is reduced. The other system has more modifiers, but is particularly impacted by the units morale and hence favors the Germans. This is not appropriate that the Germans receive more reinforcements than the Soviets in the winter scenarios - yet that was what was happening....

You can find all this in the User manual in game, but I would happily post the detailed passages if required.

David

76mm · (This post was last modified: 11-10-2012, 12:26 AM by 76mm.)

Strela, thanks much for the answers. I am pretty new to PzC and am still going through the manuals, haven't come to the sections on these topics quite yet.

I can't actually find where to download the McNamara database, which I guess I should use with Minsk and Budapest, which I also have; Volcanoman's site refers to the DB but I don't see a download link. Or should I just install the VolcanoMan Alt_scenarios for the portions of the database relevant for each game?

**Compass Rose** · 11-10-2012, 12:39 AM,

As far as I am aware, there is no public download for the McNamara database. To be able to use that db in older PzC releases, you would need to download the VolcanoMan Alt_scenarios which will include the db's that are used.

76mm · 11-10-2012, 12:42 AM,

OK, that works too. When I read about the VolcanoMan Alt_scenarios, I got the (perhaps incorrect) impression that they were mainly intended to balance PBEM play or something, but from Strela's post it seems that these scenarios are also consider more "realistic", is that correct?

**Compass Rose** · 11-10-2012, 12:49 AM,

I'm not familiar with the in's and out's of the DB. All I can offer is what is posted over at VolcanoMan's website located in the FAQ's section.

http://volcanomods.com/index.php?option=...&Itemid=28

http://volcanomods.com/index.php?option=...&Itemid=28

Hopefully someone with more info about it will be willing to respond.

76mm · 11-10-2012, 01:24 AM,

Thanks. I think I got my impression from the following text on VolcanoMan's site:
*************
These scenarios are tailored specifically with PBEM in mind and, where possible, are products that take into account the suggestions of the wargaming community. They also make use of the latest PDT file rule enhancements so that they utilize the latest rules and changes which often occur in the engine many years after the game's intial release (therefore, it is necissary that you update/patch your game to the latest version available from the game developer's website). Because it often uses the latest rules and enhancements, the _Alt scenarios are also something that non-multiplayer users may way to try out. In no way is any of this meant to suggest that _Alt scenarios are superior to the stock scenarios, they simply offer an alternate experience and perspective.
*************

But that explanation doesn't mention anything about the OOB changes referred to in his entry re the McNamara DB, which are more appealing to me:
*****************
he McNamara database (aka "Project McNamara") was a name that was given to a database that was created for use with Panzer Campaigns (PzC) games with the intent to standardize all unit values...The end result is a database that provides consistency to each game, qualitative advantages to certain equipment, and a historical spectrum of performance across weapons and vehicles where everything is scaled off of one another.
******************

So, it sounds like the PDT and OOB changes would be worth having, although I don't understand what they have to do with PBEM...

76mm · 11-10-2012, 05:01 AM,

I've went and looked at the Alt_scenarios for Minsk 44 and found the excellent,detailed change file which lists all of the changes to the pdt and OOB files, and why they were made. Excellent work, I'm sorry that I've overlooked these until now.

**Mr Grumpy** · 11-10-2012, 05:24 AM,

(11-10-2012, 05:01 AM)76mm Wrote: I've went and looked at the Alt_scenarios for Minsk 44 and found the excellent,detailed change file which lists all of the changes to the pdt and OOB files, and why they were made. Excellent work, I'm sorry that I've overlooked these until now.

Glad you found the info about the _Alt scenarios you were looking for, as Ed (Volcano Man) would tell you himself he is not saying his values are superior or more realistic than the stock values, they simply provide an alternate option for players to try out, you will find some players like his values, others prefer to stick to the stock values and some will play either. Wink

Liebchen · 11-10-2012, 01:34 PM,

(11-10-2012, 12:42 AM)76mm Wrote: OK, that works too. When I read about the VolcanoMan Alt_scenarios, I got the (perhaps incorrect) impression that they were mainly intended to balance PBEM play or something, but from Strela's post it seems that these scenarios are also consider more "realistic", is that correct?

Ed "Volcano Man's" mods include the McNamara database, scenarios reconfigured for balance using them, and also excellent unit artwork.

You might also be interested in Jison's wonderful MapsMods, which update all kinds of terrain features. Here's a link to his mods: http://mapmod.hist-sdc.com/