Suggestions for good war movies

[Weasel]

I watch SPR for the battle scenes, not the story. You have to admit the battle scenes are top notch. The rounds going over the boys heads when they hit the beach reminds me of when a few went over my head! Man, talk about hitting the dirt quickly!!!

Pretty lame though, "hey you four guys, lets attack that MG42! Now we could go around and come in behind them, but I am a school teacher turned captain and my field manual says a spread out frontal assault is the way to do it!"

Also, why did they wait until the Germans attacked the town to start moving ammunition around? Dumbasses.

[Weasel]

While searching for movies I came across this write up for the series "The War Of 1812"

"Only 30 years after gaining independence, the upstart United States found itself once again battling Great Britain. Pitted against the world's most powerful nation, victory seemed unlikely. But Andrew Jackson's brilliant leadership, a lone sniper, and one of the most lopsided victories in military history turned the tide of the war. The History Channel presents The War Of 1812 is the authoritative chronicle of one of America's most defining moments."

What is the lopsided victory they speak of here? What brilliant leadership? Every time the US marched across the boarder they were defeated. While the UK boys did little better, at least they did capture Washington and burn it before heading back to Canada.

I had one of my US opponents say to me one time during a game in regards to the war of 1812 "I thought we won that war". My reply to him was simple and to the point "the why isn't Canada part of the US?".

The "lopsided victory" has to be the Battle of New Orleans, which did see the underdog U.S. forces inflict high losses on the British. The "sniper" was a U.S. skirmisher who KO'ed the UK's General Ross.

As for "winning" the war, eh, we certainly had to drop our grand designs on the land of polar bears and gravy-slathered fries. On the other hand, we gained a little respect from the British and the war considerably hardened our national identity.

Now, does anyone here know how many years it took before after 1812 before British and American forces would finally fight side by side?

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New Orleans is what I was thinking of too. So one battle to the US, one to Canada (Chrysler's Farm), and one to the UK (Queenston's Heights). A draw in my books.

I wonder how the war would have gone if the UK wasn't fighting France at that time? Y'all could be saying cheerio instead!

[seabolt]

New Orleans is what I was thinking of too. So one battle to the US, one to Canada (Chrysler's Farm), and one to the UK (Queenston's Heights). A draw in my books.

I don't think anyone could seriously refute that perspective. It's just one of those muddled affairs where person A could claim tragic defeat (buh bye, Washington) and person B claim epic victory (ragtag bootstrap nation stands tall as The Empire Strikes Back!). Any and all viewpoints have a basis in fact.

I wonder how the war would have gone if the UK wasn't fighting France at that time? Y'all could be saying cheerio instead!

I wouldn't think so, for two reasons.

First, it was too late by then. Historians criticize the American Revolution, and rightly so, because no other British colony insisted on internecine strife as an exit strategy, and all of them ended up just as free. Sensible or not, that was the bloodyminded American meme. It wouldn't have been worth the cost to the British to take back control.

Second, a subtext beneath both British wars was the whole "cousins" thing. Family members fight (frequently), but they don't take it too far.* Alluding back to my earlier question, a U.S. War of 1812 veteran didn't let that experience poison his outlook when he initiated the first British-U.S. joint combat. A British gunboat got itself shot to hell by Chinese batteries in 1859. The observing U.S. commodore decided neutrality only went so far, and went in to offer a tow. Meanwhile, abaft, some of his crew saw that the British had run out of gunners, jumped the rails, and manned the British weapons. On learning of this, the commodore's punishment consisted of calling his men "rascals." In his report, he explained himself simply with, "Blood is thicker than water."

And that's why 1812 probably will be the last U.S. invasion of Canada ever, and why the British never pushed harder than they did. We're all in this brawl together.** Even when we're fighting, on some level we still acknowledge it.

* That said, the northern and southern U.S. weren't anything like family, given their completely different societies. Which is most of what made the USCW the monstrous affair that it was. Ironically, by then both sides felt more affinity for the British than each other.

** Of course, every family has to have its black sheep, so at this point I suppose I should bring up the Aussies and Kiwis ...

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[seabolt]

Man, talk about hitting the dirt quickly!!!

I was walking down an alley toward a police standoff once in 1988, known weapons and propensity to use them, when a meth-addled biker came bursting out of the door of the house in question, not 30 feet away.

The next moment I couldn't figure out how I had ended up behind a dumpster 5 feet to the left, one knee split wide open on a broken cinderblock. Had someone shoved me? No, they were all huddled behind various crap, too. I am a bear-shaped guy, about as nimble as an anvil, but just that one time my body moved so fast that my mind didn't keep up. It was weird.

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[Walrus]

We're all in this brawl together.** Even when we're fighting, on some level we still acknowledge it.

** Of course, every family has to have its black sheep, so at this point I suppose I should bring up the Aussies and Kiwis ..

What are you trying to say Gene? :stir:

The tiny country of NZ forged it's identity and the start of it's break with Empire by stepping up in The Boer War, WWI and then WW2.
Did you know that the NZ casualty rate Per Capita was second only to Russia in WW2. 11,625 dead and 15,700 wounded, 10% of pop in armed forces Pop roughly 1.8 mil

So..we earned the right to be Black Sheep (or Yellow Sheep if you're an Aussi )
Actually, after Korea, you cannot lump NZ and Aussi together when it comes to war and politics. The Aussis have always toed the US line...we have not.

I loved it in 1984 when our Prime Minister, a very large and clever man called David Lange, declared NZ to be Nuclear Free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand...-free_zone

The US responded by kicking us out of ANZUS.

Ever since then, I have enjoyed our Black Sheep status.
Yes, we'll fight alongside you...but on our terms.

BTW...looks like Narwan gave you a lesson bro :stir:
He's hard work eh!

Regards
All Black Walrus

[Contra]

Passchendaele is coming out on theatres this weekend.

[seabolt]

Ever since then, I have enjoyed our Black Sheep status.
Yes, we'll fight alongside you...but on our terms.

And more power to you for it. I was just stirring the pot, myself. The only problem I have with Kiwis is that damn rugby dance. Real footballers are starting to do it over here. Um, guys, maybe I'll be accused of being just a scootch racist, but when you start posturing I visualize a line of redcoats whipping down their Brown Besses and mowing down your silly butts while you're busy making meanie faces ...

BTW...looks like Narwan gave you a lesson bro :stir:
He's hard work eh!

Oof. It was like arm wrestling an octopus. He took me to school and kicked me into the corner with the funny cone hat on.

-- 30 --

[Walrus]

HI Gene
You'd have a different appreciation for the Haka if you saw it in proper context.

The Maori were not stupid warriors and were not prone to stand in front of massed guns and having a dance.
No.

The Haka is a pre-skirmish challenge to another tribe.

If you had 300 warriors, with tattooed and scared faces slamming their feet into the baked earth, hammering their own bodies...and waving Patu and Mere and of stone, bone and Greenstone (Jade to you...pounamu to us) standing in front of you....you'd be feeling it.

If you were sitting behind a maxim...you'd not be worried...but if you had no ranged weapons...you'd be pooing your pants bro.

I have been in the middle of 700 school boys as we hammered out our Haka...and it is fierce.

The military history of the conflict between Maori and and British forces 1840-1860 is very interesting indeed. A chap called Hone Heke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hone_Heke

http://www.history-nz.org/wars1.html

and his older General Te Kawiti did very well at the beginning, embarrassing the British very badly...and becoming very good at trench warfare and guerrilla tactics.

Anyway...at least our players are man enough to face each other without armour.
Body on body....proper sports...not your sanitised version...cut up for TV viewing. Yet another victim of advetising.
Don't get me started or we'll end up talking about cricket...and why America is doomed because it has forsaken the greatest game on the planet!
Hurrah and a cup of tea!

Cheers

[seabolt]

You'd have a different appreciation for the Haka if you saw it in proper context.

Posturing just ain't cowboy in any context. Completely different cultural values. I mean, you need 299 buddies to kick my ass, the hell you bragging about? ;)

Anyway...at least our players are man enough to face each other without armour.
Body on body....proper sports...not your sanitised version...cut up for TV viewing. Yet another victim of advetising.
Don't get me started or we'll end up talking about cricket...and why America is doomed because it has forsaken the greatest game on the planet!
Hurrah and a cup of tea!

I've already done the "soccer and rugby are perfectly good sports, just not real football" thing. It would be real interesting to put a quality x rugby team in pads for American football then have the quality x football team play a game of rugby. Wouldn't be fair, though. A football team can field 15 rugby-style bodies. A rugby team might have one beast on it who would make an undersized defensive tackle, never mind a decent offensive lineman.

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[seabolt]

Pretty lame though, "hey you four guys, lets attack that MG42! Now we could go around and come in behind them, but I am a school teacher turned captain and my field manual says a spread out frontal assault is the way to do it!"

I guess I'll just hammer this thread to death, but this scene did make more sense in the novelization of the original screenplay. It's hard to see in the movie, but the Rangers' line of advance is through a series of trenches. (Why the trenches are there is never explained.) The idea is that they will fan out in this excellent cover and play Whack-A-Mole until the German gunner is forced to change barrels. Then close and grenades.

The problem is that the German MG crew knows perfectly well that this is their "weak spot," so they posted an SMG man in position to enfilade the trenches. Scratch one medic.

As abbreviated in the film, it's all a big fatal muddle.

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